Author Topic: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?  (Read 739 times)

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Offline airam

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Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« on: March 09, 2017, 08:51:15 am »
I'm confused. I understand now that if he wakes up at the 40-45 minute mark, I should go in and resettle him. But what about if he wakes up a little after an hour (before 1.5hrs which I heard is needed to have a restorative nap)?

I'm reading that a 10 month old should have 2-3 hours of nap sleep but should I let him decide? Or should I force a 1.5 nap at least and let the other be?

Im asking because he was taking 1 2hr nap  and 1 for 1hr (or 45mins) both in my arms before starting nap training...now they are getting shorter as a try to ST for naps. Today he woke up from the first nap yawning.

Should I have tried to put him down again? After how long?

Edit: I actually dont get this. If he sleeps for a good chunk of time but it isn't enough, do I force it by PUPD again? Or should I let him play and try again within an hour?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 12:32:22 pm by airam »

Offline FPT23

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 21:33:05 pm »
Hi hun :)

Well, nap lengths vary for every baby. They are all diff but around that age you want to aim for still two good naps but some require less day sleep too. Many hugs.

How far have you came in ST?

Could you please post your daily routine in EASY format? :)

It could be just a matter of tweaking the day, if you find ST has gone better.

Xo
Fabi






Offline airam

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2017, 07:13:28 am »
Thank you for you reply.

Yes, he's not taking nearly as long but there still is a lot of resistance and crying even when I'm sure he's tired. I try to keep A times 3hrs+.

This was his schedule for most of the past days:

NF 3am/6am and goes back to sleep until
E:WU 715~
A
S:10am-11am (it was 2 hrs before nap training and he's seems tired afterwards)
-bc of NT he will take longer to go down...the first nap he when down at 1040 nd slept until 1150 so I changed the day but BT was still 7pm
-the second day was closer to this
E
A
S:2pm-3pm/2.30-3.30pm
E
A
S:645/7pm

I guess he was really tired last night and actually slept the entire night (he woke up at 8pm bc he was too hot). Woke at 644am for his feed and fell back asleep until 830am. This was unusual and since I know he needed it (I know I broke the rules), I just let him sleep to see. Of course, I was up at every fuss/cry and other every sound he made throughout the night.

Today might be like this if he naps for 1hr or less again
E: 830am
a
S:1130-1230
e
a
S:330-430
e
a
S:~715pm

Offline airam

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 07:43:23 am »
38 minute nap!

...naps are getting shorter even though with longer A times! Just before ST, Lo was still napping  around the 2-2.5hr mark. I would nurse to sleep and he would sleep right away...could this be OT since Im trying to move up his A times to what's "normal" for his age?

Offline FPT23

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2017, 21:56:58 pm »
Hi hun

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

These are the average ATs but every baby is different.

Your EASY above you said he woke at 7:15 and you did a nap at 10? I would try pushing that first AT out but only push in 15mins increments for a few days. Just one AT not all day.

Are you trying to still ST? What is the prop? Nursing to sleep?

There is no such thing as breaking rules hun! :) you do what works!
Fabi






Offline airam

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2017, 06:43:38 am »
It seems our A times are ok. Yes, on the lower end but I think its ok since right before STing, he was still on less A time and he fell asleep just fine (in my arms and with nursing, but he would fall asleep instantly so it wasn't the nursing).

Yes, I am still Sting and I dont nurse to sleep (since starting). I sometimes feed him again after an A but I always do another A after E and not S right away. For the routine, I just close the curtains, turn on sound (which I really want to stop), sit with him in the dark room vertically, say it's sleep time and put him in the bed. He rolls over and if he stays on his tummy, I pat him for a bit until I feel he settles (rare). If he sits up and cries (most likely), I PUPD until he stays on his tummy, then pat.

I have a question. In the morning, he will wake up for what I think is WU time, but will then fall asleep while feeding. This doesn't happen all the time but enough that I feel he needs to sleep.

a. do I allow him to sleep and push the day/nap times back?

b. do I keep him up? if so, and since he's so tired, do I keep the A time long (3hrs) or shorten it?


Edit: The 38minte naps seem to have been because of external reasons. I think my LO has a sleep cycle of about 50 minutes (not the 30/45 minute mentioned here). Then he seems to go for about 10minutes after that. I know this be cause he takes a deep breath around that time and then starts moving his limbs. When he used to sleep in my arms, he would have a jolt at around 45-50-60 minutes and wake up. I got smarter just before starting ST and would switch him to the other arm and he would fall back asleep for another hr.

Now I want to try W2S to entend his naps since he was doing one 2hr nap before nap training and he's so tired after his naps.

I tried it a few times but I just can't get it right. I even woke him up once and the other times he barely stirs. Any tips?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 16:51:46 pm by airam »

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 00:43:53 am »
Just an aside - why stop using white noise? We still do at home and my kids are 10, 8, & 3. It is a wonderful sleep cue for them and they are all able to sleep other places without it.
Heidi




Offline FPT23

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 03:22:00 am »
IRT the WU time.... I would keep the same WU time as consistent as possibly so days become seemingly more usual. Or at least start and end more or less at the same time.

Well, most babies still take an under tired nap when given.. especially when helped. I really do feel you need to push those ATs. Baby needs to be tired enough to get through the cycles... assuming STing has been teaching him individual sleep. I can't really give much opinions with nursing to sleep or sleep training since I don't have much experience. I breast fed but never was a prop for us.

As far as the naps are concerned, I would do your best to just nail that sleep training and teach baby to sleep independently. In which case I still personally would suggest longer ATs :)

Many hugs!

Xo
Fabi






Offline airam

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 05:42:49 am »
Ok, I'll try to extend his A times starting with 15 mins today. I'm hesitant because I sometimes get busy and extend it anyway and he still naps for the same time. Also because he still seems sleepy around the 2.5hr mark.

I'll try to keep the WU consistent. We are ok today for around 7am-715am.

STing is coming along. For BT, he was putting himself to sleep most days without my help. Just a little pat and I'd be out. Now, after starting nap training, he seems to need me to pat for much longer. I had to do this for naps because of the training since it was harder for him but now he seems to require that for BT too. Ugh. I think he's teething now since he started waking up 2-3 times a night again...or is that because of naps too.

I can't really give much opinions with nursing to sleep or sleep training since I don't have much experience. I breast fed but never was a prop for us.


Xo

I didn't understand this part. From what I explained, am I using it as a prop? I nurse/pump/feed after naps and/or always with an A time between it and sleep. I haven't nursed to sleep since STing, as I mentioned before.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 06:49:49 am by airam »

Offline airam

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 05:45:07 am »
Just an aside - why stop using white noise? We still do at home and my kids are 10, 8, & 3. It is a wonderful sleep cue for them and they are all able to sleep other places without it.

I really wanted to but there are studies that show it can be damaging. I don't use full volume anyway but my husband isn't having it.

Offline ginger428

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2017, 19:16:32 pm »
Hi there!
I also had to ST for naps similar to what you did and in the end it worked! Naps will lengthen and your routine will settle once ST is completely successful and baby is sleeping independently.  The difficulty with the 9-11 month stage is the huge physical development that happens around this stage and like you mentioned, teething! Oh the joys!

To summarize what you responded:
you are keeping WU the same at 7-7:15
A times 3hr
patting to sleep for BT and naps
waking a few times a night
Sounds great what you're doing with EAS- eating after sleep not right before

My suggestions:
-Set nap times and BT- suggestion on easy below. (he may not fall asleep until 3.30 or 4.00 A  from start of nap, but it may pay off if you try it the same time every day, and it will eventually work so that he starts dozing off by himself at the BEGINNING of nap time)
-Set WU time within 15 mins
-For the patting, I got this great advice from a friend here... we would pat, then slow down, and lift hand. Then counted until baby started fussing. If it was 30 seconds, I would pat, then lift, and wait AT LEAST 30 seconds to pat again. It worked for us, as we got up to the 100's and eventually he didn't need any patting and he put himself to sleep.
-During hard core teething- inflamed gums and whites of teeth showing through gums, crazy drooling and gnawing- I medicated for naps as well as night sleep. Tylenol for naps, motrin at night.

How does that sound? Did I miss anything?

I agree with FPT that the sleep cycles will connect given the right routine and knowing how to sleep independently. If you think your son's cycle is around 50 mins, I would go in at the 40 mark and once he twitches, lay your hand on his back firmly.  I had to do this and even had to apply pressure to his legs and arms with my body... like I was holding him laying down, until his breathing was slow again. I can't think of a reason not to do this while ST, but I do know that ST can help babies do this on their own. I would only do w2s for 3 days or so, then see how he does on his own. Btw, once my son was able to fall asleep on his own, when he woke at 30-45 min or so, I would wait another 30 min to see if he'll fall back asleep. If he started crying, I would go in and try the patting method, then leave again. Again, after things settle, we'll see how much he is napping total and go from there.

Here's a description of what BW suggests, I just had to modify it bc my baby would almost always wake up.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)


Sample routine for your son:
WU 7- 7:15
Nap1- 10:15 (start at 10:15, it may take 30+ mins, but just start here every day for at least a week)
Nap 2- 2:30 (if am nap was 30-60 min), 3:00 (if am nap was 60+ min)

I know this is a hard push, but we'll be here to support you.  Come and tell us how your days are going and we can tweek if necessary. But at the minimum, we suggest sticking with a plan for 3 days, but with ST I would say 5-7 days, depending on how it goes.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 20:21:14 pm by ginger413 »

Offline *Ali*

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2017, 21:48:31 pm »
If you're using PUPD make sure you're doing it in an age appropriate way. There's almost no PU by 10mo. How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

Also, by 10mo all 3 of mine had started the transition to 1 nap and were doing one long nap of 1.5-2hrs and a shorter nap of 45 minutes. There is more info here that may help From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 21:54:13 pm by *Ali* »



Offline airam

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 07:51:05 am »
Increasing A times yesterday was a huge disaster. First time ever with a morning nap of only 30mins and then again for only about 40mins. So much for me thinking his cycle was 50mins...it might be 30mins and he is (WAS!) able to settle into the next 30min cycle by himself but not for a second time to make it to the 1.5hr I wanted...I DONT CARE ANYMORE...I just want him back to his hour naps like it was when I started this post. I should have been grateful instead of messing around with things.


My suggestions:
-Set nap times and BT- suggestion on easy below. (he may not fall asleep until 3.30 or 4.00 A  from start of nap, but it may pay off if you try it the same time every day, and it will eventually work so that he starts dozing off by himself at the BEGINNING of nap time)
-Set WU time within 15 mins
-For the patting, I got this great advice from a friend here... we would pat, then slow down, and lift hand. Then counted until baby started fussing. If it was 30 seconds, I would pat, then lift, and wait AT LEAST 30 seconds to pat again. It worked for us, as we got up to the 100's and eventually he didn't need any patting and he put himself to sleep.
-During hard core teething- inflamed gums and whites of teeth showing through gums, crazy drooling and gnawing- I medicated for naps as well as night sleep. Tylenol for naps, motrin at night.

How does that sound? Did I miss anything?

I agree with FPT that the sleep cycles will connect given the right routine and knowing how to sleep independently. If you think your son's cycle is around 50 mins, I would go in at the 40 mark and once he twitches, lay your hand on his back firmly.  I had to do this and even had to apply pressure to his legs and arms with my body... like I was holding him laying down, until his breathing was slow again. I can't think of a reason not to do this while ST, but I do know that ST can help babies do this on their own. I would only do w2s for 3 days or so, then see how he does on his own. Btw, once my son was able to fall asleep on his own, when he woke at 30-45 min or so, I would wait another 30 min to see if he'll fall back asleep. If he started crying, I would go in and try the patting method, then leave again. Again, after things settle, we'll see how much he is napping total and go from there.

Here's a description of what BW suggests, I just had to modify it bc my baby would almost always wake up.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)


Sample routine for your son:
WU 7- 7:15
Nap1- 10:15 (start at 10:15, it may take 30+ mins, but just start here every day for at least a week)
Nap 2- 2:30 (if am nap was 30-60 min), 3:00 (if am nap was 60+ min)

I know this is a hard push, but we'll be here to support you.  Come and tell us how your days are going and we can tweek if necessary. But at the minimum, we suggest sticking with a plan for 3 days, but with ST I would say 5-7 days, depending on how it goes.



Thank you for dropping by and your suggestions.

Funny, this is the exact plan I had for today...even down to the patting method. I started it yesterday by lifting my hand quicker and at first he would try to get up but fall down the second he felt my hand (look how he's playing me! lol). I just put him down for his first nap (1015) with this method and it worked. Thank the Lord!

Hopefully his naps are better today and at least go back to the normal 1hr. I dont know if I should just observe today, go in and w2s or just be there to resettle if he wakes up before he cries.

If he wakes up at 30/40mins again, he sits up and starts crying right away. My baby does not play or babble...he wants out right away. What should I do? Should I just keep saying "it's sleep time" and make him lay down (he will just cry harder and sit up again)?



Offline airam

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2017, 07:56:13 am »
If you're using PUPD make sure you're doing it in an age appropriate way. There's almost no PU by 10mo. How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

Also, by 10mo all 3 of mine had started the transition to 1 nap and were doing one long nap of 1.5-2hrs and a shorter nap of 45 minutes. There is more info here that may help From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)



Thanks! You're right, I forgot about some of that.

As for transitioning to 1 nap. I know my baby isn't ready for that. He is so tired, poor thing. I am sure he needs more than he's getting. He needs 3hrs at least but he just wont sleep more than 1hr (before!) on his bed. I think w2s is the best thing right now. Or at least, that's what I need to try first with a good routine.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: Nap length for 10 month old...Is anything under 1.5hr bad?
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 10:27:26 am »
The transition isn't instant.  It takes months of one nap shortening until it's gone usually. Has he always been very high sleep needs?  He's getting over 12hrs at night isn't he so 3hrs plus during the day would be high end of sleep requirements ime.

Waking at 30 minutes doesn't mean he has a 30 minute sleep cycle. It usually means he was too OT to complete the usual 45 minute cycle.  That would make sense if he's had a sudden jump in A time. Waking 45min-1hr normally means he's UT and didn't get back into a deep sleep for the next cycle. It can also be because he's looking for some kind of prop when he's in light sleep.

I wouldn't let one day put you off. We usually say you need to try a new routine for at least 3 days to see if it works.  It won't happen overnight.

Don't worry, he's not playing you. He's just looking for comfort and feeling your hand back on him reassures him you're there.  It's just what he needs right now ☺