Author Topic: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule  (Read 440 times)

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Offline Rhales

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5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« on: March 15, 2017, 14:04:55 pm »
Hi I am having a lot of trouble with my 5 month old. Since he was about 3 months I have been trying to transition him to a 4 hour schedule slowly. He is having the hardest time. He starts yawning less than an hour after being awake in the morning.

He also has difficulty napping. He wakes after 30-40 minutes. I can sometimes get him back to sleep. I don't know what to do since he is now 5 months and can not seem to stay up longer than an hour in the morning to get to 9 for a nap. Then he wakes up 40 minutes into his nap and won't go back to sleep and just cries. I think that if I can get him to stay up longer he will be able to sleep for 2 hours. Some days when I have been able to keep him up he does make it from 9-11 for a nap but those days have been few because he sometimes wakes up at 6 or 6:30 and won't go back to sleep. Right now he is on the 3 hour EASY but this is more what he day looks like.

6:45 wake
7:00 E
8:20 Sleep
9:00 awake crying try to hold him off till 10 at least
10:00 Eat
10:45
11:15 or 11:30 sleep usually on me or in the stroller because of an older brother who we pick up at 11:30 at school
12:30 or 12:40 awake
1:00 Eat
2:00 Sleep
4:00 Eat/Awake
6:30 Eat
7:00 Bed
10:30 or 11 Dream Feed
2:00am Feed

He was sleeping through the night at 6 weeks off and on and then went back to waking several times at night. When he does wake up at 2am he does eat and then falls asleep eating and I put him back.

He also doesn't seem to want to eat longer than 5-6 minutes during the day. I had a lactation consultant come out and she told me that he took 3 oz in that amount of time. That was back in January so a few months ago. I can't get him to eat for longer. If I give him a bottle he only takes about 3.5-4 oz. I think part of his problem is that he isn't eating enough during the day. How do you get them to eat more?? I've tried everything. Please help!

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 13:20:28 pm »
Hi, sorry to hear you are having trouble. 

I think you are on the right track trying to push A time.  If his nights are unsettled then he may well show early sleep cues but I would go for 2h minimum A time at this point, and he may need more.  He may well wake crying after a short nap because he is still tired, but not tired enough to sleep longer.  Sometimes LOs show sleep cues out of habit and if you change scene, distract, and push through you'll probably find he can manage rather longer than you expect if you allow a few days for him to adjust.  Too-short A times can cause unsettled nights so that may be part of your issues.

Does he go to sleep independently?  That is often a big factor in night wakings at this age...

With his feeds, 5-6 mins can be a big feed at this age - neither of mine fed for more than 5 mins by 4-5 months.  He will certainly be far more efficient than 2-3 months ago :). The amount he takes from a bottle is likely smaller than he gets from the breast so I wouldn't use that as a measure.  If you push his A time and get some longer naps, his feeds will also naturally space out and you may find he then takes more per feed xx
***Katherine***







Offline Rhales

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 01:52:48 am »
Hi, sorry to hear you are having trouble. 

I think you are on the right track trying to push A time.  If his nights are unsettled then he may well show early sleep cues but I would go for 2h minimum A time at this point, and he may need more.  He may well wake crying after a short nap because he is still tired, but not tired enough to sleep longer.  Sometimes LOs show sleep cues out of habit and if you change scene, distract, and push through you'll probably find he can manage rather longer than you expect if you allow a few days for him to adjust.  Too-short A times can cause unsettled nights so that may be part of your issues.

Does he go to sleep independently?  That is often a big factor in night wakings at this age...

With his feeds, 5-6 mins can be a big feed at this age - neither of mine fed for more than 5 mins by 4-5 months.  He will certainly be far more efficient than 2-3 months ago :). The amount he takes from a bottle is likely smaller than he gets from the breast so I wouldn't use that as a measure.  If you push his A time and get some longer naps, his feeds will also naturally space out and you may find he then takes more per feed xx


Thank you for the response! So last night I did wake to sleep at 1 am since he has been waking at 2 am for a while now he then woke up at 3:30 and I fed him and he went right back to sleep. We are also in the swaddle transition which isn't helping things. He keeps rolling to his stomach and is happy sleeping there. At around 4:30 he had come completely out of his swaddle so I reswaddled him and put him back in his crib. He went back to sleep without help or crying. Then he woke up at 7am. I fed him and then he was awake until 8:50am. Then he woke at 9:30am so 40 minute nap and wouldn't go back to sleep. I waited to feed him until 10:15-10:30am. Then kept him up since I saw your note until 11:50am. He slept until 12:30pm. I then waited to feed him till 2pm and put him down for a nap at 2:50pm. He woke up 30 minutes later but I was able to get him back to sleep right away and he slept till 4:50pm so a 2 hour nap!! Finally! I think we need to just power through the A times and he will be better.

He does go to sleep on his own independently but sometimes is a little fussy and just needs patting. Early on he would go to sleep on his own in his bed without crying. Then it seemed like he was just so over tired that he would cry a lot before falling asleep. Then I thought that he needed to go to sleep sooner. I've had a hard time reading him since day 1.

I will add that he has a very active older brother that he wants to watch during his A time. So I think that isn't helping. He probably feels like he's missing out.

Thanks again for the response!
xo

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 12:47:52 pm »
How are things?  Have you consistently managed to push for 2 hours?

He keeps rolling to his stomach and is happy sleeping there.
The advice is that if he can get himself into this position then at this age it is ok to leave him there.  You should however still always place him to sleep on his back to begin with :)

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Offline Rhales

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 13:51:23 pm »
He is doing a LOT better. We are pushing him to stay awake till 8:40 and then doing 20 minutes of getting ready and setting the stage for sleep. He actually just wants to be in his crib and as soon as I sit down with him he arches his back and looks at his crib. I put him in there and he starts scratching his face. He has eczema so I have to stay with him and almost hold his one arm down while he goes to sleep. Yesterday he woke up about 30 minutes into his nap but put himself back to sleep. Morning nap was only 1.15 but afternoon nap was 2 hours and I had to wake him at 3pm. Then he took a cat nap in the stroller as we walked to the store which was about 45 minutes. Then bed at 7:30pm.

So naps are shaping up but his nighttime is still really bad. He had been sleeping through the night and then in January got a cold and was waking a lot. He was habitually waking at 2am for a while so I was doing wake to sleep at 1am. It worked a few times but now is not working at all. Last night I did a dream feed at 10:45pm. I had been waiting till 11pm but think that is too late. Then he was awake at 12:30am crying. I got him back to sleep. Didn't do wake to sleep bc I was just up. Then he was up at 2am got him back to sleep then he woke up a lot in-between 2am and 3:50am when I finally just fed him and he slept till 6:45am.

I would think he isn't eating enough during the day but my husband gave him bottles on Sunday because I had to work and he still did the same thing. Waking at 2 and not settling really until I fed him. He doesn't seem to want to eat but play with his older brother. I have to feed him in the dark and quiet to get him to eat longer. Any thoughts on this night problem. He's almost 6 months and not sleeping through the night! We're exhausted.

Thanks!


Offline jessmum46

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 16:23:50 pm »
If it's been a good 3 hours or more since the last feed I'd probably just get on and feed him at this age, seems like you are both losing sleep resettling for an hour or more only to feed anyway?  Night feeds are very normal at this age, honest!  I know it can feel like every other baby is sleeping through but the reality is they probably aren't, people just aren't very good at being truthful ;)  You may find a big difference in a couple of months when he is a little more mature and has solids in addition to his milk - not a suggestion to introduce solids early, just that I found for both of mine once they were having all their milk feeds plus some good meals the nights did start to settle x
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Offline Rhales

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 15:14:43 pm »
Thanks for the response. I have been having the same issues again with 30 minute naps again even on the 4 hour schedule. Yesterday he woke at 6:30 and I fed him around 7. Then he went for his nap at 9, woke at 9:30 but I was able to get him back to sleep and he slept till 10:30. Then I got him to sleep at 1:30 for second nap and he was up at 2. He cried for 45 minutes till he finally went to sleep at 2:45 and slept for 45 minutes. Again this morning another 30 minute nap. He woke up crying like he was scared. I went in and put my hand on his back and it didn't help. He stopped crying but now he's just chatting and fussing in his bed a little.

I don't understand how this 30 minute cycle gets better. He has been having trouble with this since he was born. I have been doing the same thing with shush pat and now since he's too big for that I do pick up put down if I need to but he really doesn't do well with it. I have let him cry it out and he eventually puts himself to sleep but he cries just as much if I try to help him. He will be 6 months this month and he's not really being consistent with getting past that 30 minute mark. I don't know why I even stay home to try to sleep train since its clearly not working.

AHHHHH Please help!

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 21:20:26 pm »
((Hugs)), I know it is super-frustrating but short naps are part of the territory with young babies, and the main thing that helps (besides good sleep habits) is time.  If he can go to sleep independently, he will eventually start linking those cycles together :)  I'm sure you know that we don't support cry it out here, we'd always suggest you should be with a baby who is crying for you to soothe and reassure.  The aim is not to stop the crying (after all that is how he communicates at this age), or make it shorter, but for LO to trust that you will always be there when he needs you - in the long run this gives them the confidence to be great independent sleepers :) 

Is he 6 months now?  How are his nights?  Could you post the whole day's routine for a day or two for us to look at ad see if there are any obvious tweaks to make?
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Offline Rhales

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 02:48:07 am »
Thanks for getting back to me. I think I need to clarify from my last post. The day that I let him cry was a really bad day. I have a 3.5 year old son who is home 2 days a week in the morning who was also home that day. I put my son down for a nap at 9:00am. He fell asleep quickly but was awake after 30 minutes. I then spent an hour and 20 minutes trying to get him back to sleep while he cried the entire time. I was with him for that full hour and 20 aside from a few minutes where I had to help my other son get set up to watch TV. I finally became very frustrated with the crying and the fact that I knew he was totally exhausted and would not go back to sleep. I think he would fall asleep and then the next second wake crying. I left him in his crib so that I could get a break and take a deep breath so I didn't lose my mind. I think he was in his crib for less than 5 minutes and he fell asleep in that time. I did not leave him there by himself for every long. I am not a supporter for cry it out either but if I become overly frustrated it is best to leave him and come back after a quick break.

I do remember my older son getting better after 6 months. It seemed like one day he just magically started sleeping longer for his naps. I know we need to get to that point but its really challenging the second time around.

He will be 6 months on the 11th of this month. He is still waking up once at night usually around 4-4:30am.

His typical day looks like this:
6:30-6:45 wake up
7:00 Eat
9:00 Sleep, usually only 30 minutes. Sometimes I can get him to go back to sleep if not then I spend the till 10:45 or so to get him back to sleep. If he does go back to sleep it usually takes me 20 minutes of my hand on his back and some pu/pd
11:00 Eat
1:00-1:30 Sleep (We have to go get his older brother from school so sometimes we are at the park longer and don't get home until 12:45pm) Same deal as the morning nap. Sometimes I can get him to go back to sleep but sometimes when I do get him back to sleep he wakes again after 10 minutes. Or my other son comes upstairs and I have to get him back to his room and can't spend the full 20 minutes with him. We live in a 2 bedroom apartment with the second bedroom is upstairs with no door.  :(
3:00 Eat
5:00 Sleep
5:30-5:45 Awake
6:30 Eat
7-7:30 sleep
10:45 Dream Feed
4-4:30 Eat

I was thinking the other day that maybe I'm waiting too long to get him to nap and he's over tired and then can't get back to sleep. Thoughts?

We have also started on solid food some as well. Not sure if that makes a difference in how he's sleeping.

I'm also wondering why he is so fitful after his 30 minutes of waking up when I get him back to sleep he isn't staying asleep. Should I stay and keep my hand on his back for 20 minutes? Also, when he does wake up he isn't crying right away. Do I go up and just wait for him to wake up or put my hand on him before he wakes up? I try to wait and respond but I don't know when the best time to go to help him is.

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Re: 5 Month old resisting 4 hour schedule
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 17:35:28 pm »
Hugs, I've been there and get it with the frustration :-*  Totally agree that if it is all too much that stepping out for a few minutes is the best course of action - and one which doesn't just apply to sleep! 

Just as a minor thought/bit of advice - I really wouldn't spend more than 5-10 mins trying for a resettle.  I know it's hard when they are so clearly tired and in need of it, but my experience with my two was that if they didn't go back quickly, they rarely would and all it would lead to is frustration (me) and exhaustion (them).  Especially with another LO to deal with - just take a deep breath, let the nap go, and try again later if you can.

Happy half birthday to him :)

I suspect you are having nap issues because he needs a bit of an A time push, not a decrease.  It's not uncommon for LOs this age to be on 2 naps and to me, that looks to be where he's headed.  Can you try for a consistent 3h A time for a few days and see what happens?

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