18mo routine and bedtime help please :)

[labrodyk]

Hello lovely ladies,

I'm starting a new thread for some fresh eyes now that AJ is a little older but some issues still linger. Thank you for reading.

Several weeks ago we pushed the nap to 1/1.10 (pd in cot - asleep) and this made an incredible difference. I suspect she was going through a growth spurt because coinciding with this change she started to sleep 13+hrs overnight and 2-2.5hrs in the day and eating non-stop. That then dropped back to a more usual routine but coincided with NW (which don't require assistance) that happen several times after bedtime and then again in the early morning around 4am. We have all teeth cut through but the eye teeth are SLOW at coming down/up to say the least...She looks so exhausted with bags under her eyes a lot of the time. So whilst on paper her routine looks okay, something doesn't seem right.

She is consistently inconsistent at nap time. Without the video monitor I wouldn't know how she slept but it's very restless and she typically rolls around after the first 40 minutes for another 40. So nap is USUALLY ending around the 2.30 mark? Sometimes earlier or sometimes a bit later at 2.40/2.50? Or randomly, like today, she's done 2.5hours+.

This makes BT quite difficult because I never know if she's UT or OT. She has ALWAYS taken forever to go to sleep at night - previously up to 60 minutes although it has changed now on 1 nap to a more consistent 40 minutes. She has been known to cry out during this time but leading up to bedtime during wind down she gets incredibly upset. She also will not let my husband near her when he comes home so it makes this part of the day extremely stressful for all of us. We tried for a week of him just doing the bath, nothing else, and she screamed so much it was horrible and since our wind down is relatively short (bath, dressed, songs/prayers, bed) it wasn't a nice thing so I've gone back to doing it. Once in bed, she'll suck her thumb and self settle...eventually.

So, a few questions:
1. Should I be aiming for a 12hr day asleep by 7.00 so in bed at 6.20/30 even if she woke from nap at 2.30? Or what would be more realistic?
2. Should I be pushing or capping the nap at all?

Sample EASY:
WU: Around 7.00 but lately it could be much earlier, I'm not 100% sure. She'll suck her thumb and lay there for a long time and say nothing.
Nap: 1.00 in bed; 1.05/10 asleep - 2.30ish, sometimes later.
BT: 7.00; asleep by 8.00 at the latest. If I PD at 7.30 sometimes it can be 8.20/30 by the time she's asleep...
^^ SO confusing.

For example tonight; BT 4hrs after nap WU at 4pm (3hr nap) and was asleep in 30 minutes.
Nap: 1-4
BT: 8.00; 8.30 asleep
^ woke every hour or two from midnight crying

Thursday 30/3
WU: 6.30-7.00
Nap: 12.45 - 1.57 (1hr 10/15 at most). I PD because she was falling over herself and crying. She couldn't stand up straight 😔
BT: 6.00; 7.00 asleep.

I've tried being flexible or a set BT and we just end up in a tired mess. I can't understand how a mammoth nap gets an easier bedtime than a short nap and the same A to bed!

[Conniesmummy]

I've been experiencing something similar with my little girl who is 19 months this week.
I do think it is a sleep regression and so I have just continued to keep to our normal routine as best I can.
Like your little one, I don't necessarily know if and when my littly wakes unless I check the video monitor.
I did let this stress me out at first, but I figured if she needed me she would shout, so now, even if I check and she's awake, I don't go get her until wake up time, which is around 6:30-6:45. If she's woken particularly early, she has started to settle back off again until get up time. She wasn't doing this about a month ago and was looking tired and grumpy in the day   
Same at nap time, she will refuse to come out of her cot until she is ready so I leave her, once she's sat up, then I go get her. I believe she is just like us and needs time to come round after sleep.
With regards to bedtime issues. We've had all those you are having, but fingers crossed she seems to have settled back again.
We had a minor setback at the weekend as daddy came home for a few days after working away for 5 weeks and also the clocks going forward an hour. We had some tears and shouting and a couple of late for her bedtimes around 8pm but fingers crossed she's settled again now. I did worry that daddy going back yesterday may upset her again, but she seems OK so far and is at nursery today, which usually tires her out for bed.
Hopefully your little one will settle again. It's tough when you're used to them being so good normally.
I just aim to keep to her little routine as much as possible. I do feel a bit more confident as a mum, having managed this on my own.
It is difficult for them to let us know how they feel, with their limited communication skills at this age. I'm sure we will a whole different set of sleep challenges when they can have a conversation with us!!!
I wonder why people are keen to transfer their babas into a bed so soon. At least they are contained in their cot when they go through this regression 
I hope this helps x

[choc]

Hi labrodyk, we were on the  2:1 thread  at the same time I think! Im having the problem of early mornings at the moment, they are creeping earlier and earlier.
Im not sure what to suggest for you, if she has always taken ages to fall asleep then maybe that's just the way she is. Does she usually sleep through the night? Is she happy in the day? If yes to these then I would leave things as they are.
We do set nap1 to 2.30 and bedtime set at 7. But as I said he is waking earlier and earlier.
I personally wouldn't put her down at 6.20.  A 13 hour day is fine. So wake up 7am put down 7pm but if she is happy in her cot till.dropping off at 8, sttn and is happy next day, I'd leave it.

[labrodyk]

Hey ladies! Thank you SO much for your replies - I really appreciate it.

My concern is that she's not happy at the moment. She cries a lot of the day, tantrums continuously and by midday she constantly falls over and cries. Very unsteady on her feet. She also has dark circles under her eyes and seems to want to fall asleep when we are out in the pram/car around 10.30/11 but she can't or won't. It's excruciatingly difficult to keep her awake until 1pm.

So many big development things going on and the canines trying to grow down/up s I know that is playing a part too but it would be nice if she seemed to get a proper rest. The whole bedtime routine is such a struggle, like she's over it before we even start but when I write it down it doesn't look too bad!

[choc]

What was happening before you pushed the nap to 1pm?

[labrodyk]

Hi!
Today she woke at 2.30 crying so around 1.5hrs but whilst I left her until 3pm she didnt go back to sleep but lay quietly trying to fall asleep again.


Before we moved to 1pm we were at 12.30 and we were getting a short nap too and ER. We've never had much luck with the longer naps and we were stuck on 1hr20 after we dropped from 2-1. A week or so after the move she was sleeping for ages in the nap and also sleeping in until after 8am - I assume now it was a growth spurt...

I don't know what her WU was this morning but she was falling asleep around 10am in the car but then after some shopping we had lunch, watched some TV and a play and then went down for a nap no issues. Just she woke upset.

[choc]

How has she been after the 1hr30  nap? What time was bedtime?

[labrodyk]

She was pretty good when I got her up. Hates the car (had to do kindy pickup for 4yo H).
A does not want dh to do bath routine but we got through a bit of crazy tantrumming and I put her down at 7pm - she's quietly sucking her thumb but no sleep yet at 7.30pm...

[choc]

If she has been fairly happy today then maybe that nap was OK? If she normally takes that long to sleep at night you may have to accept that's the way she is and see how she wakes in the morning.

[labrodyk]

AJ didn't fall asleep until 7.50 and WU was at 7.40am!

What happens to the 1pm nap if she wakes later than 7? Do I keep it the same regardless of wake up?

[Conniesmummy]

Hi again.
I just aim for the same nap time and bedtime, give or take 15 mins or so to take I to account a rubbish nap. I consider anything less than an hour a rubbish nap, regardless of wake up time. Like today, not sure what time she woke as was quiet and I slept in later than normal and woke with a start at 6:50!
I picked her up from nursery at 5:15 and they said none of the children napped well today and my lg had only had about 40 mins after her lunch. I just start bedtime routine about 15-20 mins early, but do it exactly the same as normal.
This seems to be working at the moment, but I will admit, our canines are all through now and I believe they are the worst of all the teeth to come through due to their shape. They keep cutting the gums for longer 
My lg was also the same, always seemed tired and grumpy and was crying much more around sleep and waking times.
I just carried on aiming for our normals and offered lots of cuddles.
I also give her a teething powder every night and she is still having them at the minute cos she's still drooling lots, so not convinced we are done quite yet with these teeth!
Teeth or sleep regression, I have found this to be the hardest sleep issue we've had so far, I do believe it is meant to be the hardest. I suppose with them being older and more aware of things, but not fully able to communicate, makes them quite frustrated and fed up.
Hang on in there, I'm sure things will settle again. My lg also had big issues with hubby doing anything with her or for her. She is better now tho x

[labrodyk]

Thanks so much conniesmummy, really helpful.

I worry about the nap because today she struggled to do an hour after her later WU.
Nap: 1.00 PD, 1.15ish asleep - 1.50 woke and rolled around and then dozed until 2.00. Out of bed at 2.30.
BT: ? I'm aiming for 7 to be asleep by 7.40 for 12hr day....

[choc]

I suppose you didn't know until you tried! How was she after the shorter nap? It depends how much overall sleep she needs I suppose. If she had 12 hours at night then about an hour nap that's 13 hours total.

[labrodyk]

She was okay...until 6pm and then it's been terrible. I should have kept her up longer but I didn't realise the time and put her to bed at 6.40pm, she fell asleep at 7.10pm (30 minutes)0

We have to change our clocks tonight, back for the end of daylight saving so it probably wasn't a very wise move as I don't envision her sleeping 13hrs! Oops.

[Conniesmummy]

Honestly she will settle again. Just keep that consistency, it's really hard and stressful at times but I find a good chat about it helps me no end. I realise then, I'm not the only mummy out there trying to wing it on a daily basis!!
My little girl is always really tired after a morning activity and is desperate to sleep in the car. I know if she does before lunch, her nap length is about 30 mons and then I'm done for, for the rest of the day!! So, I avoid wrong time car naps as best I can. My hubby is just getting it now!! I open the windows and sing like a crazy woman. She gets really cross with me, but once home, or at lunch destination,  she is soon distracted and I get food in her, then let her sleep. Even then, if we only get an hour, it's the better side of lunchtime to have a rubbish nap, then I opt for an earlier bedtime. It's all about juggling. Nobody tells you this when you have a baby!
Some kids are super laid back and can cope without any help re sleep, but trust me, they are the minority!! X