Author Topic: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!  (Read 272 times)

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Offline Ioana99

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cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« on: March 30, 2017, 00:23:19 am »
My ST 7 mo old Goes to sleep easily on his own ( although he has been fighting bedtime the past couple of days). Brief early morning wakings have always been common for him but he is typically  awake now for as long as an hour early morning (4 or 5 am)  before getting back to sleep for up to one extra hour. In the past week he has also been having short wakings at other times in the night (although his first teeth just came through and he discovered he can roll in his crib so those may be factors).

The only way these days to get two one hr naps is to have waketimes of 2.25-2.5 before first nap and 3 hrs before second nap. I then throw in a cat nap late afternoon since his naps are not long enough for two naps. We have been doing this for almost a month. I feel like with these waketimes his naps should have lengthened to push out the third nap. I am at a loss!!!

I tried basing first nap on Desired Waketime  for a couple of days but that did not help sp the schedule is a bit loose. This is roughly what te day looks like (total naps are only 2.5-2.75 total);

Wake up - between 5:45 and 7:00 (i leave in crib until 6:30)
Nap 1 - starts anywhere from 8:15 - 9:30 and lasts 1 hr-1 hr 15 min.
Nap 2 - starts anywhere from 12:15 - 1:30 and generally lasts 1 hr-1 hr 15 min.
Nap 3 - starts anywhere from 3:45 - 4:45 and lasts 30 min.
Bedtime - 6:30 to 7:30.

Could the night wakings/bedtime fight  be a sign of 3 to 2 transition even though he is not yet refusing the third nap?? And how do I transition him if he is a relatively short napper?? Today i tried extending him to 2 hr 45 min in the morning (from 2 hr 30 min) but that only resulted in a 50-55 min nap. I always leave him  in the crib an extra 10-20 min.

I used to work with a sleep consultant who gave us a two nap schedule with naps at 10 am amd 2:30 pm (nights should be 7-7). We would like to work towards that but have no idea how to get there. Thoughts??

Online becj86

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 03:12:04 am »
Could the night wakings/bedtime fight  be a sign of 3 to 2 transition even though he is not yet refusing the third nap??
Yes - that is almost certain.

And how do I transition him if he is a relatively short napper??
I'm amazed he sleeps  as long as he does with those A times at this age! 2:45 A time is unlikely to be long enough to get a long nap - he will still probably be UT after that time too, average at this age is ~3hr+
There are two options for extending A times. You can just go cold turkey to 3hr for instance and be ready to resettle 30min wakings from naps for a few days, then tweak from there or you can increase by 15min every few days til naps lengthen to 1.5hr+ and stay there.

Offline Ioana99

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 09:25:25 am »
Ok thank you, i will do that!! He already does 3 hours between nap 1 and 2 so i guess i have to work on the first waketime for now (And the last). I really want to avoid doing the cat nap anymore as i feel it is wreaking havoc on night sleep but i guess i will have to be patient.

If nap 1 is less than an hour how much should i shorten the second waketime? Yesterday nap 1 was 50-55 min long and i put him down 2.5 hrs after that for the second nap and i got a 1 hr 15 min for the second nap but still had to do a cat nap.

The cat nap is usually 2.5 hrs after the second nap and bedtime is 2.5 hrs after the cat nap. However bedtime has been a struggle past couple of days. Should i shorten awake time before bed? I am just not sure he will go down so soon after the cat nap.

I am part of a facebook group that quotes much more conservative numbers in terms of age appropriate waketimes so that has held me back in the past couple of months from extending him as needed.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 09:28:38 am by Ioana99 »

Online becj86

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 10:35:18 am »
Yes, that first A time is the one that will help most with the early morning wakings. I'd try 2:45 after a first nap of more than 45 minutes. Then I'd do a bedtime at 6:30 rather than trying to make your day longer with a catnap unless you're looking at 4hr+ to bed.

Offline Ioana99

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 20:29:31 pm »
Thank you again. That makes sense. I would love a 6:30 bedtime on two naps but i feel like we are a few days away still from making that happen. He was up at 5:45 am today. I extended him to 3hrs in the morning and he did a 1 hr 15 min nap, then 3 hr wake time and 1 hr nap (ending at 2 pm). I will still need a cat nap until his two other naps lengthen and/or wakes up later in the morning. It is catch 22 maybe, as i need to get rid of cat nap in order to lengthen naps perhaps.

Should i just try to  put him on a clock schedule at this point? He may be ready? It is just hard at this point to do as he wakes up at different times. When he sleeps through the night (no early morning interrupted sleep), he wakes up early just before 6.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 21:29:07 pm by Ioana99 »

Online becj86

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2017, 09:04:21 am »
Yes, you can use a little catnap of ~30min to get you through to BT.

Give it another day or two with 3hr A then extend again, I think - what end of 7 months is he? nearer 6 or 8 months?

Offline Ioana99

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2017, 11:09:54 am »
He is a couple of days away from being exactly 7.5 mo

Online becj86

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2017, 21:46:55 pm »
Alright, so 3:15 or a bit more would be average so 3hr is unlikely to yield a perfect day or particularly long naps. See how you go with 3hr again today and have a think about extending further tomorrow maybe.

Offline Ioana99

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 12:55:39 pm »
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. After a brief discussion a few days ago with the sleep consultant i used to work with she thought my baby is ready to be on two naps using a by the clock schedule as he can now handle 3 hr waketimes. As mentioned, Previous to that he was on three naps but despite large waketimes (3 hr) the first two naps were only 1 hr-1 hr 15 min and was having night wakings and bedtime battles as of late.

I don't feel like the last four days went very well though on the clock schedule and my baby is getting overtired. I  would like to go back to waketimes and try not to have a cat nap as that was causing issues. I am trying to figure out appropriate waketimes for him based on how the past few days evolved on this schedule. I just don't seem to be able to get long naps still, and i know 1 hr naps can mean UT but the waketimes are pretty appropriate for his age now. Is there hope the nap lemgth will extend as he adjusts to two naps?

I will note that early morning wakings have always been very  common for him and in the past he he could often put himself back to sleep for one sleep cycle before the desired waketime of 6:30  (although the gap that he is  awake is longer and longer now and the chance of him falling asleep again is smaller). I don't seem to be able to get rid of this issue regardless of the bedtime or how well the naps go


By the clock schedule
Naps at 9:30 am and 2 pm.
Bedtime 6:30-7

Day 1
W 6:30
S 9:30 until 10:26 (~56 min).
S 2:00 until 2:37.  Asleep again  at 3:07 until 3:55. (Total = 1 hr 23 min.) (waketime 3.5 hr).
6:50 - bedtime, asleep at 7:16 (3.25 hr waketime)

Day 2
W 5:45
S 9:22 until 10:25 (~1 hr 3 min).
S 2:02 until 3:17 (1 hr 15 min) (waketime just over 3.5 hr)
6:25 - bedtime, asleep at 6:32 (3.25 hr waketime).

Day 3
W 5:36
S  9:19 until 10:21 (~1 hr 2 min).
S 1:57 until 2:53 (56 min) (waketime just over 3.5 hr)
6:25 - bedtime, asleep at 6:30 (3.5 hr waketime, very cranky at bedtime). 4:30 - wake up, asleep at 6:10.

Day 4
W 6:47
S 9:29 until 10:20 (~50 min). Fell asleep again at 10:50 until 11:31 (40 min). Total = ~1 hr 30 min.
S 2:17 until 2:49 (32 min). (2.75 hr waketime - undertired nap but had to stick to schedule)
5:40 - bedtime (did not want him to wait until 6:30 bedtime), active crying (overtired), asleep at 6:10 :(. Wake up at 5:30 am, asleep at 6:30 am.

Day 5 (today)
W 7:10
S?

What would be the best approach for waketimes to try to increase the nap length? I would like  to try not to nap him before 9:15 for first nap but given the early risings that waketime can become  very long. I am also worried that if the naps do not lengthen soon i will be stuck with early bedtimes and possibly even earlier mornings. I would love to have a more consistent routine but it is so hard to get there given the random wake up times!

Thanks so much
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 16:08:57 pm by Ioana99 »

Online becj86

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 20:30:07 pm »
It looks like 3.5hr+ might be the way to go with your LO. Mine was doing it at this age - by 8 months, he had some 4hr A times. I say this not because your child is the same as mine but to show that it is possible babies can do well with longer A times than you think. I think its reasonable not to nap before 9:30, absolutely.

What is your ideal WU in the AM? I'd try to work towards that by doing 3:45hr first up in the morning to pull the day a bit later, then do 3.5hr the rest of the day and stick with that for a few days to see what happens to the naps. 

Has he ever slept 1:30+?

Offline Ioana99

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2017, 01:59:59 am »
Ok that is good to know some babies can tolerate such long waketimes. He did ok with 3.5 hr waketime betweem nap 1 and 2 today (1.25 hr nap). First nap  is still one hour but perhaps i do need to push him more in the morning like you said. There were a couple of days (day 2 amd 3 in prev post where the waketime in the morning was 3.5+ hrs but it didn't seem to make a difference). Yes he has taken 1.5 hr naps before... not so much in the past couple of months, probably because i didn't keep up with extending his waketimes. We had food allergies and feeding issues which complicated the situation for a while. He has always been on the low end of sleep needs though it seems.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 02:03:22 am by Ioana99 »

Online becj86

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Re: cannot lengthen 7 mo old baby's naps anymore! Help!
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2017, 06:32:11 am »
See, a LSN kid at this age can be up to 4hr A time.

He did ok with 3.5 hr waketime betweem nap 1 and 2 today (1.25 hr nap). First nap  is still one hour but perhaps i do need to push him more in the morning like you said
Yes, so here you can see 3.5hr A time gives him a reasonable nap after a short (UT) nap. The first A time is the critical one. That's the one that sets the day up for good naps and helps get rid of the extra wakings in the early hours of the morning. If you can get that one to 3:45, I think you'll see a good length nap and then you can work from there.