Only the 2nd nap .... Now the first nap

[LaraAndrea]

Hello again,

I cannot figure out what is going on with my LO and her 2nd nap.
I recently survived the 3-2 transition and a stretch if UT/OT and I came out if it with a better understanding if activity time and soothing techniques... Or so I thought....

But now my LO's 2nd nap has fallen apart or doesn't exist, which leaves her extremely OT for bed.

Her first nap is usually 2h in length after ~3:05 AT.

For 5 days straight we have had short naps or no nap or naps that take over 30 min to settle. She is usually put down between 3-3:05 AT.

She is generally content during her AT, with exception of time approaching bedtime when OT.

Things that are different with LO:
-increased gas
-decreased frequency of bowel movements
- can now roll all directions and both sides

I realize that any of these things​ can affect sleep, but I find it odd that it is specific to the 2nd nap.

Any thoughts? It has been an exhausting 5 days with LO awake from 12:00 to ~ 7 pm

[jessmum46]

Am I right that she's just under 7 months?

I wonder if she might be UT when you put her down for that second nap....my DD would do this, put her down UT and she would roll around forever and never settle.  We had far more success getting her up again if she wasn't asleep in 5-10 mins, playing for another few mins and then putting her back down.  Your LO is having such a great first nap I think I'd push her second A time a bit, say put down around 3h15 and see if she finds it a bit easier to settle   You may even need to push more but that would be a good place to start I think.

Just one other thought - what does she do in the A time before her second nap?  Is there a lot of sitting in the pushchair/car?  DD would often need a longer A time or find it hard to settle if her A time had been fairly inactive.

[LaraAndrea]

Thanks Jessmum 46
She is 7 months next week.

The UT does make sense. Her AT usually consists of alot of floor play but recently since the weather has improved we have gone out with the stroller for a walk.

And her first AT, although I say it is 3:05 that is counted from her 7am wake up, but often she is playing in her crib prior to 7 so she probably is doing closer to 3:15 AT.

It is worth a try

[jessmum46]

See how you get on and if no joy come back to us

[LaraAndrea]

Update:
We saw some good progress yesterday. Increased 2nd AT and she went down pretty well and slept 1:15.

Today is another story...
Sticking with the 3:15 AT, LO would not settle. After 20 min we let her play for 10 min and tried again. She would not settle for over 10 min, making grunting like sounds with her mantra cry. This time we gave her a quick warm bath and tummy rub. She passed some gas and had a small poop. We tried to put her down again (at this point been up for 4.5h) had to use PU PD for 5 mins then our exhausted LO fell asleep.

I do believe we figured out the AT... For now

But... This question may be better for the feeding boards...

My LO has had increased gas since starting solids (with most things we have tried) but only now, a month in do we see evidence that it is bothering her (again only during some of her 2nd naps, other times UT was likely the culprit)

I am tempted to stop solids all together for a week and restart.

[LaraAndrea]

I have been looking at avg AT and avg sleep threads from the past.

Clarification:
I do realize that babies vary with regards to their sleep needs.. but can I expect that one of my baby's 2 naps (7 months old) may shorten despite increased AT?

From what I understand most babies continue with 2 naps until ~ 12 months.

My LO was doing 2 X 2h naps... Then 1, 2h nap and 1, 90 min nap.

I have recently increased her AM and PM AT to 3:15 and at least 1 of her naps tends to be 60-75 min. She usually wakes up happy and playing in crib.

Is this within the realm of normal?

Should I be trying to find ways to increase that nap?

There has to be a limit to increasing AT.... She seems quite tired when I put her down for these naps.

Thanks in advance for you thoughts and insights...

[jessmum46]

but can I expect that one of my baby's 2 naps (7 months old) may shorten despite increased AT?

I think it's really variable.  My DD almost never did two long naps, usually one long and one short.  Regardless of A time. But was generally happy on it.  As you work towards the 2-1 (not yet!) then one nap usually has to shorten, or be shortened anyway to keep the day from getting too long.

I have recently increased her AM and PM AT to 3:15 and at least 1 of her naps tends to be 60-75 min. She usually wakes up happy and playing in crib.

Is this within the realm of normal?

Sounds fine to me   She may be a bit UT for the nap, that would be a common cause of waking after 60-75 mins but if she's happy and getting another good nap in I wouldn't push it more for now - not unless you are having BT or NW issues.

There has to be a limit to increasing AT....

Not quite sure what you mean here....A time overall will gradually increase over the first few years until the nap is dropped, and then throughout childhood as sleep needs decrease   So no, in one sense there isn't much of a limit!  But if you mean on 2 naps then what tends to happen is as A time increases, one nap shortens and usually the A time following a short nap is shorter.  So I think just before we dropped to one nap with DD a typical day was something like

WU
4h A
1.5h nap (on a good day)
4-4.5h A
short nap 30-45 mins depending on time of day
2-2.5h A
BT

Is that any help?

[LaraAndrea]

Yes thank you,

There has to be a limit to increasing AT....

With this I was thinking that she is still pretty young and there seems to be no plateau with regards to her AT increase.
She definitely is on the higher end of the avg. AT for her age

She had a 40 min nap this AM, so we will have to make another increase.

As for NW we are still doing a dream feed, but I am planning on phasing that out now that she is 7 months old.

She was STTN with the dream feed for about a week, then she started eating less during the day and has one feed at night. Sometimes it takes 15-30 mins for her to settle after a night feed (chatting/cooing)

[LaraAndrea]

It seems like I only get one good nap. I will get one nap ~2h and then a 30-40 min nap.

Everything seemed to be going great today... 2h am nap, a good AT (increased slightly from previous day's), followed sleepy cues, she went down well.... 30 mins and won't resettle.

Could her first nap be too long? Should I cap it at 90 min? Or is that playing with fire?

[LaraAndrea]

.  My DD almost never did two long naps, usually one long and one short.  Regardless of A time. But was generally happy on it

How short was your DD shorter nap?

My LO's first nap continues to shorten went down to 65 min for a bit now 50 min, this is after I increased her AT to 330. She also wakes happy... UT.

Somebody here told me their LO needed far above AVG AT in AM. So I may continue to push AT after good night sleep.

[jessmum46]

Quote from: jessmum46 on May 03, 2017, 19:25:51 pm
.  My DD almost never did two long naps, usually one long and one short.  Regardless of A time. But was generally happy on it

How short was your DD shorter nap?

Usually around 35-50 mins, a little variable.

I think pushing the A after a good night sounds like a plan x

[LaraAndrea]

Had to increase AM AT to 3:45-4h crazy! Then I get a good nap ~2h. Always a short nap after a 2h nap, 35 min today. She is generally happy when she wakes, but gets fussy much faster and is pretty tierd as we approach bedtime. Have to go down a bit early sometimes.

On Tuesday I have to cap her AM nap to 1.5h due to swimming, then she has a second nap of 1:45-2h. Capping naps is a scary thought when you are having a good one, but I do wonder if I would get more overall daytime sleep that way... Or it could just be that she is extra tired from swimming.

[jessmum46]

Sounds like it's going well

[LaraAndrea]

The morning AT increase really helped!

But she does better overall when her first nap is only 1.5h then her 2nd nap is similar and we get more total daytime sleep and hit our ideal BT if 730.

But I can work with it either way

[LaraAndrea]

It helped for about a day...
Now first nap is shortening again (1:15)  and 2nd nap is also short or non-existent. (35 min)

I planned to shorten her 2nd AT and try a 4,3,2... But she had an untimely poop today so instead she is not settling at all. Playing, rolling, chatting, some mantra cries.

I don't even have the good first nap now, so she is crazy OT for bed even with putting her down an hour early.

I am so frustrated!