3mo old on a 2hr EAS

[Adelheid]

Today I decided to crack open my baby whisperer book and look up what the proper EASY schedule should be for a 3 month old (he's 14 weeks). Gulp. He's been on a 2hr schedule. For obvious reasons, he isn't exactly thriving on this routine.
I have two other kids (3yrs old and a 20mo old) who have made the transition from 2 to 3 kids very difficult. Particularly my 20mo old daughter went through nearly two months of transition (night wakings/ screaming/ eeeeeaaarly morning wake ups) and has THANKFULLY just stopped terrorizing our household. Because of this, I have not had ANY energy to try to sleep train or put the baby on a better schedule. The baby STILL wakes EVERY 2hours at night and until about a week ago the night wakings from the other kids meant I hardly got ANY sleep. (I do ALL child-related stuff  )
Anyway, now I am determined to get the baby on at least a 3hr schedule because I think EVERYTHING is somehow connected to his feeding routine.
He is quite a skinny guy and the doctor has said to just keep feeding on demand. I don't know if this is true, but I feel like his constant eating is actually hindering him from tapping into the hind milk. Like he's hydrating but not getting chubby.
His naps aren't usually longer than 45min unless I'm wearing him in a carrier. -I hate wearing him but I don't know how to handle the other two kids with a tiny baby around.
So, for the next few days I plan to push 2.5hrs and then 3hrs routines. Should I continue working my way towards 3.5hrs?
What about at night? I literally have been nursing him every time he wakes, which is every two hours of course. 
Do you think this is the right plan?

[creations]

Not all babies get chubby, mine is petite and has never had a spot of chub on him but has always grown well, gained weight and followed his centile line - so I wouldn't worry about looking for the common "chubbiness" but I would think that a 3 month old could certainly go 3hrs between feeds if there are no health issues.
I would just go gradually extending by 10 mins at a time each day, it's still only a week or so to get to 3hrs.

Feeding every 2hrs at night seems frequent. How about you get the day time feeds up to 3hrs and then see what happens to the night feeds as a result?  I'm always on the side of keeping things as calm as possible at night, if there is a natural or gentle way to change things I go for that because I can't cope with lots of sleeplessness in the night.  This is why I'd probably see how the nights are after changing the day time E.

How's the A time?  should be around 1hr 30 at this age.
If you can start some gentle sleep training, even one nap per day in the cot with you extending the nap with some shush/pat it could help to get to the 3hr E too. A LO who is asleep for 1.5hrs and then eats and then has a little play time then another sleep is unlikely to be hungry as early as one who is only napping 45 mins.

[Adelheid]

Great idea! I'll get his daytime E up to three hours and then take a look at the nights. Yeah, too much change is definitely not going to work for this already sleep deprived mama!
Today I started with 2.5hrs and it was no problem. A time is always 1.5hrs
I can't entirely remember the exact times today but I he had two good naps (2hrs in a carrier and 1.5hr in his cot) and therefore bumped his own E time to three hours. The other naps were short 45min.
I'll keep track of his schedule now and post it when I have a better routine going.

[Adelheid]

Uff. Why is this soooo hard!?!
I feel like I shouldn't complain because, after all, I WANTED these kids. But seriously. Third time in, and I'm just as frustrated as I was with the first!
Why won't babies sleep!?
For the most part my LO is on a 3hr EAS now. However, his naps are rarely more than 45min and I never know what to do with the extra time before his next feeding!? Ideas? (plus I can't seem to ever go in a do a wake to sleep because the other kids won't leave me alone)

Thanks to the overabundance of germs my older two spread, my 3mo old has an other cold. I've lost track on how often he's had one since birth. That disrupts night time sleep and then I'm a walking zombie the next day.

I texted my dh in a state of utter frustration today, blaming him for everything.  What nonsense, of course. But I needed a whipping boy.

Please BW, please tell me that somehow, sleep will happen. For the baby AND me.

One more question: Bedtime is 18:30..... is that normal or should I try to push for a later time? My older two (20months and 3.3yrs) go to bed between 18-18:30. I like having time off.

And despite my horrible text to my dh, he came home with a bottle of wine called HOPE. Ha! He knew I need some (or a lot) of that.

[creations]

And despite my horrible text to my dh, he came home with a bottle of wine called HOPE.

ha ha!  I like his style

You LO will of course learn to sleep longer - eventually
for now you can only really keep reminding yourself he is still really young and finds it tricky.
You can begin sleep training of course which would help him learn to self sooth and transition from one cycle to the next on his own but you need to balance this up with the needs of the rest of the family and how much time you've actually got to put into it.

There is a slight chance that he could sleep better with a touch more A time, he is about a week off from 4 months now I think, and the guidance A time for 4 months is 1hr 45 to 2hrs.  You could increase from 1hr 30 to maybe 1hr 40 or 1hr 45 and see how things go?


What do you think?

One more question: Bedtime is 18:30..... is that normal or should I try to push for a later time?

We had phases of 6.30pm BT and phases of BT being as late as 8pm - personally I refused to go past 8pm.  some people keep the same BT regardless of what else is going on in the routine.  I prefer to do BT based on whatever the rest of the day looks like and how much I believe LO will/can sleep overnight - I didn't change it daily but as each new routine came along (with nap extensions or nap drops, longer A times, etc) I altered BT accordingly then stuck there for a while.
IMO 6.30pm BT is totally fine - if at some point it shows itself to be not fine then you can shift it at that point. I would have a semi-flexible approach. for example to me it is pointless fighting a baby to go to sleep at 6.30 and they are still refusing by 7.30 and you are exhausted from it and tearing your hair out, for me I'd much rather just move BT later and LO go down calmly and quickly - although the Y time is shorter it begins in a calmer mood with less frustration so the Y time is better quality.

[Adelheid]

it is pointless fighting a baby to go to sleep at 6.30 and they are still refusing by 7.30

Good point!

Should I try pushing my LO towards 3.5 EAS? Night time sleep is still all over the place and he wants to nurse ALL night long. As a result, when he wakes, there's no morning feed. With my other two kids, I'd be gushing milk by then, but with this LO I've got two limp balloons.

Also, when he wakes early from a nap (which seems to be more often than not), do I wait to hit the three hour mark to feed or do I feed and start the schedule all over? I think I should increase the A time like you said and move up to a 3.5/4hr EAS so that if he wakes early and he feeds, its not only been two hours since his last feed.

I have also noticed that my LO will take nice long naps if I'm wearing him. My dh thinks I should be happy about this and wear him all the time. But, I don't ACTUALLY like wearing the baby and I do it only so that I can deal with my 20mo old and three year old.
Is this a bad idea to keep using it? Is there a better way to sleep train a baby with little kids at your heels?
 

[creations]

My dh thinks I should be happy about this and wear him all the time. But, I don't ACTUALLY like wearing the baby

Perhaps you could invite your husband to wear him all the time
But seriously - I'm with you, I needed time *away* from my DS, that's what Y time is for hey? (and to shower without wearing the baby in the shower!)

You can increase the A time without necessarily extending the E time. Some babies don't move to 4hr E until more like 6 months and with the introduction of solids.  I would keep E at least 3hr apart so if he wakes early from a nap there shouldn't be a need to feed right away, he is likely fine to wait until 3hrs.  Just watch out for any E that might clash with a nap and adjust the time a little, feed a little earlier if needed or if he is likely to be asleep at the E time then you can wait until he wakes which takes it over the 3hrs but without forcing him to wait.

How about try that increased A time an go for one nap per day in the cot with some sleep training and APOP the other naps??  Once one nap is in place you can work on the next.
What do you think?

[Adelheid]

I wore him for his first nap bc we had to walk to daycare.
The second one was after short A time (like 1.15min) in his crib for 40 min. I didnt know what to do with him when he woke up early so I put him in the carrier and sure enough he slept an other 45 min. 
He nearly made it into his crib for an other nap, but his two older siblings kept making so much noise that he'd wake up. SOOOOOOooooooo frustrating. I finally sat down with the baby in the kids room and cried. My older son (3yr3mo) came over and said "Mommy is pretty" to cheer me up. Ok, that was sweet.
Anyway, w EVERY nap I try to get the baby off me and into his crib! I think I should seriously have my DH wear him and then be in charge of cooking. 

Thats really helpful advice to know that I should extend A time either before or after E in order to keep the E at better intervals. I do think my LO is gaining more weight now more than he was on a 2hr schedule.

[creations]

Oh dear honey - sorry to hear you've had a teary day
hugs - it's going to get better.

If first nap is always or usually during a walk to day care I would suggest you do a sling nap every day for that one - for now anyway, but you can let it be a CN rather than trying to keep him asleep as you clearly need a break.
Then go for nap 2 in the cot but try with the longer A time and then get the other kids set up with something safe and pop in to LO for a W2S if you can, even if you only go in at 35 or 38 min just as he is about to transition and see him through for a few mins.  W2S is supposed to be longer than this of course but it's worth a try just to get him over into that next cycle.

You're going to feel better even with one nap in the cot I think, just for that short break.
More hugs