Author Topic: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help  (Read 7304 times)

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Offline airam

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minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« on: May 06, 2017, 13:17:59 pm »
I'm having difficulty with a times for 12month old.

if I use 3hr a times, I get 30mins minimum of babbling/whining at nap times and up to an hour at bedtime. obvious ut.

Im trying 3.5 hrs even though I feel that 3.75-4hr is better to get a good nap. 3.5hr a times still usually produces 1hr naps and I'm aiming for a least one 1.5hr nap minimum.

I should mention that there is always some resistance, from 10-15 mins even with 3.75hr of a time.

so for example, if

wu 7am
nap1 1045am-1245pm

...when should nap 2 be if I want a bedtime of no later than 730pm?

this is how today was and he's currently napping on me from 345pm and I'm hoping to cap it at 415pm...this second a time was only 3hrs and I know he would resist for at least 30mins, hence the arm napping. but I dont want to go back to this!

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2017, 17:54:33 pm »
Hi there
I've moved your post over to toddler sleep board as your LO is now 12 months old :)

A times can be considerably longer for some LOs at this age as some have already moved to 1 nap and some are moving towards 1 nap
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0

Here's some info on the 2-1 drop which might help, have a read and see what you think
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0

From what you've said it sounds like you need a 4hr+ A time prior to one nap to get this as a long nap and a shorter A time prior to the other nap.  You can be the best judge as to whether the short morning nap with long afternoon nap is more suitable or the other way around.  You're looking for one long and one short nap - and the short nap can be capped even shorter as LO moves closer to dropping it.  You are also looking for nap lengths and A time lengths which lead to LO going down more easily so that you don't resort to napping in arms or there being huge resistance for the nap - although it has to be said at some point you might decide to do a 30 min nap in arms to get through to BT if/when LO gets to the point of totally refusing a second nap and the A time before BT is too long without a nap.

Hope this makes sense.  Have a read of the FAQ above and there are some additional links inside there and see what you think. We can help with advice and so on once you have an idea of what is expected at this age and have had a think about which nap you think is better long and which short (as you know LO best and your family circumstances and routine best).


Offline airam

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 14:04:32 pm »
Thanks. It does seem like a 4hr A time is needed now whereas before I could get away with less. I dont know how it works, though.

I mean, if there's a 4hr A time in the morning, then nap 1...when will nap 2 be? Bedtime?

Also, is it realistic to still have BT between 7pm-730pm? I feel like it will be towards 745-8pm. He always gets up between 640-745am even if he (finally) slept at 9pm. That's why I'm trying to maximize nighttime sleep.

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2017, 18:49:40 pm »
I mean, if there's a 4hr A time in the morning, then nap 1...when will nap 2 be? Bedtime?
If you see in my previous post I said it would be up to you regarding which nap would be the longer one and which the shorter - you can decide based on all sorts of reasons such as you have an idea which one LO would prefer to sleep longer on or there are more toddler groups you'd like to attend at a certain time of day etc.  If you let me know which is best for you I can show you an example of EASY times.

He always gets up between 640-745am even if he (finally) slept at 9pm. That's why I'm trying to maximize nighttime sleep.
I don't think you mentioned in your earlier post that there is BT resistance/refusal.
It is quite common for BT to move a bit later as LO gets closer to moving towards one nap but can't yet cope on one nap, fitting two naps into the day plus the longer A times does usually mean BT moves later... once you drop down to one nap though BT will move earlier again.
Let me know if you are somewhat flexible with BT or if it must be no later than 7.30pm as you said in your first post (I didn't realise LO was not going to sleep until 9pm - my personal limit was 8pm although having said that when he was dropping down to no naps at 2yo we did have some nights he refused until 9pm).


Offline airam

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 07:12:08 am »
Sorry, I thought I did mention it.

Yes, resistance can be up to an hour or even more. Thatès how he get's himself to 9pm. However, I realize now that that was only because I would put him down after 3hr of A time and he'd be UT'd. Now with 3.5hr A time before BT, he goes down much easier (only about 15mins of babbling/light crying).

I think I'll stick to a longer morning nap since that's what he's used to now. Also, because nap 2 is always harder, I feel like it'd last until 530pm.

What you said about a later BT makes sense for this phase. I guess 8pm would be the max since he still wakes up at night for feeds. If he has a good day, he only wakes up once around 5am and then up for the day at 640am.

Right now this is what I'm doing (since Saturday)

640-7am WU
1040am nap 1 (Saturday=2hrs/Sunday=1hr in bed and 1hr in arms)
340pm nap 2 (in arms for 30/45mins)
BT 740pm (asleep at around 8 )
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 07:59:55 am by airam »

Offline Buntybear

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2017, 11:54:42 am »
Right now this is what I'm doing (since Saturday)

640-7am WU
1040am nap 1 (Saturday=2hrs/Sunday=1hr in bed and 1hr in arms)
340pm nap 2 (in arms for 30/45mins)
BT 740pm (asleep at around 8 )

Hi This look pretty good to me! We would have a 13 hour day and 11 hour night at that age and did just what you are doing - long AM nap and APOP a short PM catnap. Glad you have figured out the UT BT shenanigans!

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2017, 17:46:53 pm »
Yes looks good :)
You can even let that afternoon nap be shorter if LO can cope with it or in a few weeks time.


Offline airam

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 08:01:16 am »
Thanks for your replies. I'm glad it looks normal. It seems to be working for us now.

The only problem is that he isn't sleeping for more than an hour for nap 1 on his bed even after the jump to 4hr (except Saturday). I'm going to try increasing his activity level in hopes of tiring him out...but what do I do if that doesn't work.

Also, what do you think about what happened yesterday

WU 640am
N1 1038am (cried harder than usual with coughing=OT...went quiet at 1044am)
-woke after 1hr and resisted being put down again.
-sleep in arms for 1hr, woke up and slept again for 1hr
-nap 1 = 3hrs! (2hrs in my arms)
N2 (It didn't happen. I tried at 330 when I saw him rub his eyes, then again at 400pm but the husband came in and the noise disturbed him)
BT 620 (he babbled and on and off cried until 640)
-no early night wakings! I dreamfed at about 5am

So far today
WU 650am
N1 1050~

Offline Buntybear

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 08:39:42 am »
I imagine after a 3 hour nap he just wasn't tired enough for a 2nd nap. I would definately try and push his first A time out a bit and get a longer first nap with a view to cutting the 2nd one back and pushing it later. You will find find that your day starts to get longer and possibly your nights shorter but this will change once you drop the catnap.

Offline airam

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 12:26:46 pm »
I imagine after a 3 hour nap he just wasn't tired enough for a 2nd nap. I would definately try and push his first A time out a bit and get a longer first nap with a view to cutting the 2nd one back and pushing it later. You will find find that your day starts to get longer and possibly your nights shorter but this will change once you drop the catnap.

You might be right. I'm going to play with this for a little longer and see. It has only been a couple of days.

I think there might be something wrong with him.

He sleep at 1050am today for nap 1 but let out a cry around 1130am. Then got up at 1150ish. He didn't want to sleep after that even though I held him. His head feels hot so maybe the molars are coming out?

Anyway, he was yawning all after that. I put him down with little resistence at around 245pm. He let out a cry after 30mins...this is new.

Offline Buntybear

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 12:40:38 pm »
It could be teeth if he is unsettled. Have you tried some painkillers to settle the pain and temp?

Offline airam

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 16:07:02 pm »
It could be teeth if he is unsettled. Have you tried some painkillers to settle the pain and temp?


No I haven't since he seems ok for the rest of the day. Does teething pain increase during sleep?

Again, he woke up around 4oopm (about an hr later) and didn't sleep afterwards. Hopefully, BT will be 730pm.

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 18:52:43 pm »
No I haven't since he seems ok for the rest of the day. Does teething pain increase during sleep?
teething can certainly effect LOs during sleep when they appear fine the rest of the day:
- when awake and doing things they have more to distract them from the pain (just like adults, we do better when we are "doing something" but can feel more ill or more pain at night or when alone or no good distractions)
- laying down puts more pressure on the gums and they can feel like they are pounding with every heart beat which isn't felt when sitting or standing up
(a dental problem of my own a while back reminded me just how much the pain increases when you lie down)

You can try elevating the head end of the cot with a wedge (or pillow under the mattress) or cot blocks under the cot legs.


Offline Buntybear

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 21:02:38 pm »
agree with Creations. Olly would also get a raised temp and be more sleepy during teething but then have the NWs too x

Offline airam

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2017, 05:53:22 am »
Sorry for the late reply. He's sick with a very high fever (39.5-8+). I'm doing whatever he needs to get rest and we'll try to get back on track later. Thanks for all your support. Knowing that I don't have to stress trying to fit all the A times in a day really helped me figure this out.