minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help

[airam]

He's 14 months now.

Thanks for the idea...I might just record my voice an play it for the first part of his sleep.

I increased the A time by 10mins and was going to wait for the 55 mark to help him sleep but he woke up at 40mins-ish. Today I increased it by 15mins and we'll see how that goes. I'll try to get there by the 35 mark in case he wakes up early. I think this early waking is normal since he did the same when I first started STing. Hopefully it wont last long.

[creations]

Good idea to record your voice

Good luck for today.

[airam]

yesterday n1 was for 1hr After about a 4hr15min a time. today was the same

I have a feeling my lo just cant transition on his own. even in my arms he stirs at the 1hr mark...he has only done 1.5hrs-2hrs by himself only a handful of times in his life.

anyway, here are some things ive been doing that might have made a difference...

bc of ot he always want to sleep in even after sleeping from 8-530/6, waking to nurse then falling back to sleep. so the day usually starts from 715-720am. I adjust nap times accordingly (so a wu of 720=nap at 1120 etc). I dont know if this changes anything. I just mention this since we arent consistent with the schedule.

also, after a couple days of leaving him to sleep and wake up on his own, I decided to allow him to sleep in my arms after n1 so that he doesn't get too OT'd from all this. He was waking up super tired from all naps and in the morning. there were times he even wanted to sleep in a lot and I had no choice but to allow it (nothing I did woke him up).

I made a mistake yesterday. he woke up after an hour from n1 and I allowed him to sleep in my arms. I didn't mean to but he slept from about 2hrs20mins and I had to wake him up even though he wasn't done. he slept again at 510-520 (I was trying since 445). BT was at 8pm without too much resistance. BUT he woke up at 6am today and wouldn't fall back asleep as usual.

I dont know if I'm right to allow him to sleep in my arms after n1 to avoid OT. he IS tired and needs to sleep for at least 1.5-2+ hrs. he just doesn't seem to by himself for naps...

[creations]

I have read that sleep cycles increase in length from 6-12 until LO is on a cycle length closer to that of an adult, it may be that your LO has a 1hr sleep cycle length and is waking at the end of it.
Have you tried W2S to see him through the transition at 1hr?  This is a method often used for sleep training.  I know I suggested it before but don't remember if you had any success with it.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0

I made a mistake yesterday. he woke up after an hour from n1 and I allowed him to sleep in my arms. I didn't mean to but he slept from about 2hrs20mins and I had to wake him up even though he wasn't done. he slept again at 510-520 (I was trying since 445). BT was at 8pm without too much resistance. BUT he woke up at 6am today and wouldn't fall back asleep as usual.

This sounds like he was better rested. I think it may be a good idea to let him have a very long first nap and then a CN later in the day - what do you think?  BT looked easy and although 8-6 is only 10 hr night he got a great length nap even if it was half in cot and half in arms.  If you could get that nap all in the cot you'd be sorted!

I adjust nap times accordingly (so a wu of 720=nap at 1120 etc). I dont know if this changes anything. I just mention this since we aren't consistent with the schedule.

Hmm..honestly I'm not sure, my mind has gone a blank,. Often we say it's better to go for set times when LO is over 12 months and on 1 nap but your LO is still on 2 naps so maybe working the A times and adjusting each day is the better approach for now.
I'll just go and ask someone about that.

[airam]

Thanks for all your support.

Honestly, I'm all for a long n1 and a cN later on...if he would just sleep in his bed the entire time!

I wanted to sleep if he could transition himself...but since it doesn't seem like it, I might have to w2s. I'll start tomorrow if things go well after our outing.

[airam]

yesterday we were out from 8-1115am. I put him down for nap1 at 1130..wu was at 7am. I was sure he'd extend his sleep on his own since he was already falling asleep...nope. just slept for an hour. then I allowed 30mins in my arms.

so I was disheartened and really thought of giving up. when I first started sting, I was told to extend the a times...the I tried w2s and it didn't work. I felt like I should just backtrack and get him to sleep at 330 a times for both naps. then a a time of 3hr before bt so he gets 11.5 hours instead. plus I felt that it would be better since hed sleep for 1hr for both naps in his cot...

well, I stupidly put him down at 11am today (wu 7am) but he cried and learned that if he stood up, he could see me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so I left and came back in as if it was wake time. I put him down again around 1120 but he just cried hard and kept standing up. I kept trying to calm him and pd. I even pu to calm but he didn't. now hes asleep in my arms, taking stuttering deep breaths as he falls asleep.

I messed up. I just hope the standing doesn't continue...

[creations]

Oh well, tomorrow is another day.

I would go for 4hr 15 or 4hr 30 on the first A time tbh. W2S is only going to work if the A time is long enough and LO is tired enough to make that transition with help, then after a few days without help.

I would try something like:
WU 7
A 4hr 30
S 11.30 - 1.00 (1.5hr)
A 3hr 30 - 4hr (if he will accept nap at 3hr 30 do that, if not make it 4hr)
S 4.30 - 5 or 5 - 5.30
A 3hr - 4hr (again trying for 3hr 30 if he will accept it)
BT 8pm or 8.30pm (if he wakes from nap 2 at 5.30 and won't go to sleep again until 4hr A time it will be a later BT more like 9.30pm but really I don't think this would happen, if it did we can reassess to get it earlier).

What do you think?

[airam]

this is what I have been aiming for but I didn't know I was to let him sleep in his bed for n2 since n1 didn't extend yet

I'm trying to bw consistent but hes waking up twice...between 2.30-4 then sleeps after 30-1hr. something longer. then again from 545-620 and rfuses to be placed in bed even though he clearly wants to sleep. hes sleping on me now.

I tried w2s once and it didn't work. I keep staying awake to try even though I needthe sleep but he keeps waking up at unpredictable times before I can do so.

I have some questions if youd be so kind...

1. for the 6am waking, what should I do. I tried nursing then when he wakes after I put him down. I tried to pat but he keeps moving side to side crying. the time is so close to wu, I feel like my effort is fruitless even when he does finally sleep in his bed...by this time I'm so exhausted I just dont car and he sleeps until 8 sometimes.

2.if I try putting him in his bed for nap two or bt but 3/3.5hr isn't enough and he just cries...what do I do? continue or take him out?

I for got the rest

[airam]

sorry for another message today

n1 was/is a disaster. I felt like did everything right...

yesterday

up at 609am...nursed then slept. tried to transfer to bed but resisted  but was sleepy. at 630 I gave up so this was also wake up
1045~ n1...up in less than hour and napped in arms until 115...I woke him up
425-5pm n2
bt8pm...815?
nw at 230am,,,nursed and back to sleep around 3am


up at 6am today...same as yesterday but I really wanted to get him used  to a 7am wakeup so I allowed him to sleep on me after trying to get him back on his bed.
woke him up ay 7am
1130...tried to winddown 5-10mins before...but him down and after like 20secs of silence he started crying. I sang...crying got harder and harder...kept trying different songs...nothing. crying hard. I knew pu and patting wouldn't work so I kept singing but he woukd stand to look for me. currently napping in arms breathing hard

I dont know what happened and I honestly dont know what to do. nothing I do works with him when he cries hard except to return to the old way.

do I just keep singing even if hes crying hard? since he knows I'm there...

do I pu or pat even though he continues or cries harder or will stand if he sees me by the bed?

I have no confidence in what I'm doing.

[creations]

It sounds like your LO probably needs to move to 1 nap.  This transitional period you are going through can last some time and is not so easy for some.
You and your LO might both prefer it if you moved to one nap in one step and just go for it - what do you think?
It would mean you don't have to try for nap 2 any more which could be a relief??

If you decided to go for it the nap would need to come at about 5hr A time so you could start the day at 6am or when he wakes and nap at 11 for 2hrs or more (this nap could then be moved gradually to 11.30 to encourage a later WU and balance the day a bit more).  You'd then look for BT around 5 or 6pm depending on how long he napped and what his level of tiredness is.
6am start to the day probably doesn't sound great just now but it means you can just get on with it instead of putting in huge effort to resettle and then end up co-sleeping which causes other difficulties.

If though you feel he can't cope with just one nap yet then I think you do need to reduce nap 2.  Maybe down to just 10 mins in arms so that you don't get as much resistance?

Sorry you are feeling low in confidence, lots of us feel like that from time to time. Like I say, this is not an easy transitional period for lots of people.  Some do find it easier to just go for it and drop to one nap, almost set the nap time and do earlier BT.

[airam]

Thank you for your reply and suggestions.

I actually edited the last response but it got erase.

I basically said that I feel like my problems are due to inconsistency from me. I started putting on an alarm clock at 7am to wake us both (it's not too loud and is under my pillow). I also adjusted the A/c so it's much mor cooler and I think that's helping him. I also tried gently holding him down since he will stand immediately and that's working with a song. I tried stoping early but he will cry for me to continue...so I need to work on phasing that out. The rcording didn't work since he cries an I have to change to something else.

I want to give this one more shot...a real shot. If not, ill move to one nap like you said. With distraction, it might work but I still feel he needs two.

I try this for a week or so and see.

[creations]

OK - with any change you need to feel comfortable with it and you know him best
Hope you have a good week.

[airam]

Update:

So I did try and it was going ok for a couple of days. He still only slept for 1hr for nap one. He started resisting nap2 again on his bed and since it was only 30 mins I let him sleep in my arms.

However, I dont know why, but I decided to follow his cues more (something I was told not to do when I first started STing since 'they are unreliable at this age"). I realized that he ws still getting cranky at the 3-3.5hr make for nap1 and was begging me for sleep (I would always distract him and totally forgot how to read his cues).

I decided to follow his cues and even though he is still sleeping in my arms for the second hour of nap1 and for the 30mins of nap 2, it seems that he is more restful and he is more consistent in his sleep.

Of course, please tell me if this is a disastrous move. ..

If I continue the arm sleeping, will I know when he's ready for 1 nap?

Will this stop him from learning to sleep properly?

I hate that I always have to come back to this...but it's the only way I cam think of to keep my sanity right now.

[creations]

Honestly it would make me insane to have to have my LO sleep in my arms every day but if you're happy with it and if it actually helps with your sanity then it's your choice

Yes of course it is likely to effect him learning to sleep in his cot, sleeping in arms is not independent sleep.  When it comes to the point when you no longer want him napping in arms it will be time to sleep train again.

[airam]

It's more like the lesser of the two evils. it doesn't bother me. The way I understood it, this is a difficult stage where they need longer a times but also refuse a nap...which means a lot of OT. I thought I was being smart to wait it out instead of fighting it trying to make him sleep during this time. I was afraid that if I didn't allow for him to nap in my arms for the second hr of n1, then giving him a long a time so he could nap again for only 30 mins would cause more problems...

7am wu
n1 1130-1230
n2 430-500pm
8pm bt

so it would only be a 1.5hr nap total and a ~10hr night (minus the time it takes for him to settle, early wakings, night wakings)

I also really dont know how to go about the fact that my LO cant nap for more than 1 hr at a time. not even 4.30 hrs a time extended his naps...

...but maybe the one nap is exactly what he needs to finally regulate his sleep?

I guess I could try for a week and if it doesn't work, I could always go back to two naps.