Author Topic: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help  (Read 2671 times)

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2017, 09:11:46 am »
I also really dont know how to go about the fact that my LO cant nap for more than 1 hr at a time.
I might be understanding you wrongly here but it seems that LO only ever sleeps a longer nap if the second half is in arms - so that is all you can expect if that is what he has been taught.  To sleep longer in the cot he probably needs sleep training to get there.


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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2017, 09:12:12 am »
Oops! I meant it DOES bother me. I wouldn't be here if it didn't.

I get what you mean. So what do you suggest?

Should I try moving to 1 nap and just let him sleep for however long he can in his bed even if it's only for 1 hour total?

For example,
7am WU
12pm n1 (most likely only for 1 hr)
6pm BT?

This will cause a lot of OT, NWs and resistance at BT but I can be patient if it's just for a few days as he adjusts.

Also, what do you mean by sleep training again?

w2s? I can try that again, but it didn't work before. He stirs, then sleeps. Then wakes up exactly when he normally does (after 1 hr). One thing that worked is if I put a hand on his back before he wakes at the hour mark and gently hold him down. I would have to be in there 10mins before to catch the wake up and wait at least 15-20mins holding him down to make sure he stays and transitions. But I feel that I'm just helping him and he doesn't learn to transition himself.



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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2017, 18:12:20 pm »
I would sleep train nap 1 - meaning teach him he is to sleep in teh cot for a full nap. The only way to do this is to stop holding him for the additional hour.  yes W2S is one method that teaches LO to stay asleep for longer (in their cot, not in arms) and what you describe here:
I put a hand on his back before he wakes at the hour mark and gently hold him down. I would have to be in there 10mins before to catch the wake up and wait at least 15-20mins holding him down to make sure he stays and transitions
is exactly the way the W2S method works (there are two methods this is the one I always advise). yes it takes time but it does teach Lo to stay asleep in their cot.  I would give it a proper go, 3 days on 1 day off see what happens, if he wakes resettle then do another cycle 3 days on 1 day off see what happens, repeat.

If you feel W2S doesn't work you resettle at the 1hr WU. This means sooth him with your usual method (shush/pat or a rub, or stroke, a firm hand, key phrase etc) and you keep going until he sleeps or until nap time is over (or for 45 mins).  If you need to pick up you do so to calm him down but you don't let him sleep in arms you make sure you get him down.
Sleep training takes time and effort, it isn't going to magically happen and he isn't likely to decide to suddenly do it himself.  He will likely get OT during the training phase but that's okay.

I would continue to hold in arms for nap 2 but not let that nap be more than 30 mins because he mustn't be allowed to make up his lost sleep from nap 1 if he won't resettle by getting a longer nap 2 (if you want nap 2 longer then I'd suggest it not be in arms as you end up stuck again).

I would not move to one nap yet as it doesn't sound like he can handle the A time length needed.
This will cause a lot of OT, NWs and resistance at BT but I can be patient if it's just for a few days as he adjusts.
Honestly it is unlikely to be only a few days.  Mine was as ready as he could be for the move ot one nap (ie always refused nap 2 and did super long morning A time), he was also a fully independent sleeper with a solid 2hr first nap and I had a great struggle and a lot of hard work to get him through the 2-1.  His 2hr nap turned into 20 min OT screaming WUs and I basically had to grit my teeth and force him to sleep no matter how long it took and how exhausting it was.  It was certainly more than a few days.


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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2017, 14:14:59 pm »
wow...I guess I should expect the worst, then.

ill do that starting next week to get a good 5 full days of training before the weekend interruptions.

I have a few questions

1. if he doesn't go back to sleep after the 1hr, should I move n2 and bt earlier? ...or would it then be like this
7amwu
n1 1130-1230
n2 430-500pm (try in cot? or not to risk it since if he starts sleeping well for n1, ill have to go back to arm sleeping. besides the ot from n1 might make things difficult)
8pm bt (hes usually asleep by 815-30 but theres no resistance as long as I sing)

or for days with 1hr n1,

7am wu
1130-1230 n1
330-4pm or 4pm-430 n2
7 or 730bt

2. you mentioned keeping n2 at 30mins, should bt be kept at 8pm?

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2017, 15:16:02 pm »
For now I would leave the nap times and BT where they are which means he will end up with a longer A time between nap 1 and 2 if he won't resettle on nap 1.  Going with a bit less sleep for a few days (if you can't resettle) isn't going to harm him, it will help him get into the routine and sleep in his cot (certainly nap 1 even if nap 2 is still APed in arms).  basically the only time you are going to let him "catch up" is at that nap time when he is supposed to sleep.
You might even be able to move nap 1 a touch later to encourage that nap to be better - but I'd still keep nap 2 and BT the same for now. Moving lots of things in one go makes it harder to see what's changed and why.  That is, if you feel okay with this.


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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2017, 10:45:32 am »
what does APed mean?

day#1

wu7~
(woke at 6something as usual for a feed. 627ish but was asleep feeding. put him back down for about 10-15mins then woke him up. he really does need an earlier bt since he always wants to sleep in)

n1: put down at 1125ish and I started singing (he complains immediately if I dont. I usually stop to see if hes asleep and he will complain if I stop if hes still awake)
-left at 1134 and checked time
-came back for w2s at around 24. stirred and resettled. then I kept a heavy hand on him. I  didn't check the time but he woke up at the usual time and started to cry since he couldn't get up due to my hand
-he wiggled but didn't fight much so I kept it there.
-crying increased so I left and hid in case he stood up. started singing since that's what we do
-1245 crying got harder so I said time for sleep. kept singing
-crying harder. debated if I should pu since I know it wouldn't work but cries were from distress/sobbing/coughing/catching breath...
-put hand on back. no change. sang along with that. no change.
-1pm pu and cried and pushed me away. didn't want to calm down. sang new song until his breathing stabilized
-pd but cried harder.hid and sang...
-decided 45min was enough. turned on lights

my thoughts
-of course I'm doubting if this is right. telling myself to just let him sleep for his hour and instead make bt earlier.
-hoping tomorrow is easier on him but I'm doubting that
-I also feel my method of helping him settle isn't good...maybe too intrusive

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2017, 17:59:46 pm »
AP = accidental parenting. sometimes we say APOP accidental parenting on purpose, basically all the stuff we *shouldn't* do but might opt to do on purpose because we know LO needs the sleep or because we have a plan to drop a nap etc.

If he's crying hard I would pick up - you just don't let him fall to sleep in your arms, you can calm him in arms and put down again and repeat this as many times as needed.  Each time you put down use your key phrase and a firm hand on him, rub or jiggle if needed but help him to stay calm and if needed keep a hand on all the way to sleep and beyond.  If he likes the singing then do it during the W2S when you are helping him transition, you can wean it later, at this point anything to help him sleep longer in the cot is helpful.


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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2017, 05:08:43 am »
I'm so sorry to waste your time. I'm dealing with a lot and of that is clinical depression. plus the fact that i have no family or friends where i am and have had no help so far. yesterday was brutal with 5+ nws. i think i will push back the nap to 1030am and either let him sleep for an hour n1 and then try n2 in his bed (and maybe he will extend that nap as he has done in the past) or just carry on with allow him to sleep in my arms until a miracle happens. i think this is the best option for my situation atm. i am thankful for you all for helping me to teach him to sleep in his bed and not in my arms for all naps! at least we made some progress. i really wanted to teach him before he learned to climb out or some other obstacle but...that's life.

ill probably be back when I'm more stable and can handle things better instead of flip-flopping so frequently.

thank you so much!

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Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2017, 06:34:29 am »
Please don't think that you have wasted my time and there is no need to apologise.

Honey - do you have some support for your depression?
Do you have a current thread here to gain some support?

Many many hugs xx