SLEEP > General Sleep Issues
Teaching nap sleep to a 3mo old when shush pat doesn't work?
annesmama:
Hi all, I'm a first-time mom trying to teach my baby to sleep on her own.
ISSUE#1: She still needs help (bouncing or rocking) to fall asleep.
ISSUE#2: On a given day, she'll only do 1 long nap on her own - the rest she wakes up around 40 minutes or an hour tops.
ISSUE#3: Even though she'll start her day at 7-8am, she won't fall asleep for bedtime until 10pm-midnight!
I suspect issues 2 & 3 are related to her needing help to go to sleep.
About us:
We are EBF so I can't count ounces or anything, but she is growing well, around 55th percentile for weight. We do Elimination Communication, so we are already doing the extra "E" (eliminate) after eating. We cosleep (sidecar crib) at night, but all her naps are in her crib by herself.
My baby is textbook/spirited. She just turned 3 months old yesterday, so I am never sure whether to go by the 0-3mo or 3-6mo recommendations! She is very engaging, vocal, and active while awake, constantly kicking and cooing. She likes looking at things-- herself in the mirror, toys/objects during tummy time, looks all around when we go for walks. Some babies go to sleep when you walk them, I hear, but not this one. :)
ISSUE#1: She still needs help (bouncing or rocking) to fall asleep.
Our current nap routine is:
1. Go potty (we're doing early toilet training)
2. Go to the bedroom and turn on white noise
3. Put on pajama pants (she wears a cloth diaper sans cover at home)
4. Swaddle
5. Bounce/rock and sing 2-3 songs
6. Lay down in crib once she closes her eyes. She usually opens them during the move.
7. (Sometimes) Hand on chest if needed to help her close her eyes again.
Usually this works and I can then leave the room. If she's OT she might wake at 10/20mins, but otherwise she doesn't wake until the transition.
Step 5 (bouncing/singing) is the one I want to get rid of, of course. In the mornings I might only need 1 song. In the evenings I might need 5 or 6. Basically, I bounce on the yoga ball and sing while she stares at the fan or into space; then when she closes her eyes, I'll move her to the crib. Lately I've started moving her if she looks vacant enough, even before she closes her eyes, and she'll often close them on the way over. There was one miraculous day when her eyes started closing even before bouncing and I skipped that bit and sang the song while she lay in her crib.
If I try to lay her down without bouncing her to drowsiness, she either plays or cries... she does *not* sleep! I really don't want to leave her to cry in the crib, and shush-pat doesn't seem to do anything for her. She's too young for PU/PD, I think? Any other ideas?
ISSUE#2: On a given day, she'll only do 1 long nap on her own - the rest she wakes up around 40 minutes or an hour tops.
It's interesting to me that she does sometimes do long naps (1.5-2 hours) on her own. Usually the first nap of the day, sometimes the second. There was one day she napped almost 4 hours! But more typically, she wakes up at 40 minutes. Sometimes if I go in and feed or rock her, I can get her back to sleep, but sometimes not. If she's already alert and blinking/looking around by the time I get there, it's usually not going to work. Is this developmental? Is she just a short napper? But why does she have the one long nap, then?
ISSUE#3: Even though she'll start her day at 7-8am, she won't fall asleep for bedtime until 10pm-midnight!
This one is driving me nuts. *I* get tired earlier in the evenings than she does! When she goes to sleep around 7, it alway turns out to be a nap -- she wakes up after 45 minutes to an hour. Then we'll try again around 9pm, and half the time *that* turns out to be a nap too. D: Last night was the best ever -- got her to sleep at 9:45pm.
Here was our EASY yesterday:
WAKE 7:45am
E 8a
E(pre-nap snack) 8:45a
S 9:00-9:45/9:50-10:45 (had to feed+bounce to extend)
E 10:45
S 11:45-12:45 (couldn't extend)
E 12:55
S 1:45-2:45 (couldn't extend)
E 2:45
S 3:55-4:35 (couldn't extend)
E 4:35
E(top off since I was going out) 6:15
S 6:50-7:20 (not sure what happened - DH said she woke up and was crying for a long time)
E 7:50 (when I got home)
SLEEP 9:45 for the night! Her night sleep is good enough for me -- she wakes a couple of times for a feed and goes right back to sleep. (I know BW suggests cutting night feeds, but we are not planning to do that, since it's generally not good for breastfeeding supply.)
becj86:
Hi :)
Looks to me like you're getting lots of undertired naps. I'm going to suggest that is most likely due to short A times. At this age, average A times are 1:30 and that's actually pretty consistent at this age and average becomes a bigger range as babies grow older. With some spirited babies, A times can be higher than average even at 3 months but in your case, perhaps start with 1:30 from wakeup to back to sleep and see how you go :)
Getting the routine more suitable for her may fix your perception of need for sleep training. I think you're working so hard to get her to sleep because she's not tired. I think once you get your A times up, she may go to bed better for the night as well.
annesmama:
Ooh, hm. I'll give 1.5 hrs a go today and tomorrow and report back...
I usually start winding down at 1hr because she starts getting a bit fussy. Her A time is mostly blanket play -- blanket in front of the window, blanket in front of a mirror, blanket with a few toys/pictures to look at in tummy time. She usually does just one of these things per A period. I don't *think* that should be overstimulating and making her fussy? I'm always worried that I'll "miss the window" so I take her in as soon as she gets cranky, but maybe I should just try a different activity?
becj86:
She could be bored, wanting more stimulation. Mine would've been very noisy about it if he got one activity per A time! Don't worry too much about OT, much easier to resettle OT naps than UT which is what you're getting right now :)
--- Quote from: annesmama on May 09, 2017, 22:33:35 pm --- maybe I should just try a different activity?
--- End quote ---
Spot on!
annesmama:
Hmm okay. So I have been trying to do longer A times with her the past couple days. The thing is, there's this really clear shift in her mood around the 1hr mark. Before that, she's an angel baby, super smiley and happy, plays independently, I just have to move her around and/or change her diaper. After 1hr, she starts to get fussy when laying down - if I pick her up and play with her, read to her, walk around with her, etc, she'll be okay for another half hour or so. Whether her A time is 1hr or 1hr30, she cries when I lay her down to swaddle; she stops crying once I pick her up again.
The reason I started moving toward the short A times was that mood change - I thought it meant she was tired? Does it not? I do think she falls asleep faster with the 1hr30 A time, but she doesn't sleep longer - still only an hour or less. :\
EASY from yesterday:
WAKE 8:20
S 9:45-10:15 / 10:30-10:45
E 10:45
S 11:50-12:50 (I wasn't sure when to count the beginning of "A", she didn't really sleep well for the resettling)
E 1:00
E 2:00
S 2:20-3:20
E 3:35
S 5:05-5:50
E 6:00
S 7:30-7:50
E 8:30
E 9:30
S 10pm
NW 11pm
NW 3:30a
WAKE 6:30a (*sadface* - I usually try to treat this as a NW, but she wasn't having it)
Today her first nap was short too, 8:00-9:00, but at least she woke happy and she's playing happily now. :\
Does she need an even longer A time?
But then why does she get fussy and need to be held for the second half?
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