So many things to change, but where to start?

[Franchoski]

Hi, I'm so happy I found The Baby Whisperer and EASY routines... and just in the nick of time!
My DD is 3.5 months and for so long I've been one of those guilty blame pushing parents saying "she doesn't like to sleep" "she can only sleep on me" (when in actual fact she loves to sleep, she's just not that practiced at it!) "she's not a very efficient drinker", which again I'm now realising is not the case. I now know she is chronically OT and has been using me as a prop.
There are a number is issues which I'd like to address but I don't know where to start and am getting a little confused, maybe over complicating things? Ideally we would like her to be sleeping in her crib for all naps and bedtime. Easier said than done at the moment!
So...
1.   Night time - until very recently my DD used to sleep ON me at bedtime. I've recently managed to slide her off of me so she's now lying next to me in bed. We have a side-crib attached to the bed which I'd like for her to be sleeping in. Is there any advice about transitioning from co-sleeping next to me to a side-crib which she uses for daytime naps? She is EBF, she uses me as a prop during the night anywhere between 2 – 5 times and appears to wake early each morning and I hold her through the jolts (whilst pretending to be asleep in case she does rouse completely). I have tried feeding treating it as a night waking and putting her back to sleep next to me, but it hasn’t worked to this point.

At the moment when we put her down to sleep around 7:30pm in the crib one of us has to hold her through the jolts at transition times. We've generally been quite successful at this since we started a couple of days ago, but how many days/weeks/months do we have to do it for before she is able to see these transitions through independently? Would we have to do this throughout the night if she's sleeping in her crib at night time? She sleeps in bed with me after the DF and doesn’t need to be helped through transitions. Does she now associate the crib with day time naps?
2. Related to this – as I mentioned, she is EBF and uses me as a prop to get back to sleep during the night (usually after a night feed she will fall asleep and when I lay her down she will rouse and want my help to get to sleep).
3. Naps - she sleeps in her crib for naps (swaddled in a Sleepyhead in her side-crib) but because she wakes after 30/45 mins we spend half the nap time holding on to her to help her through transitions!
We recently had to reswaddle her as she didn't seem ready for the transition yet. I'm scared to take her out of the Sleepyhead in case she rolls on her tummy and can't move to breathe. She is able to roll on to her side if unswaddled
4. If and when she cries at nap time we have started using the shush-pat to calm her down, but can't do it lying down as it’s hard to get her rolled over in the Sleepyhead and pat her back, so we pick her up. We are trying to get her to be able to self-soothe so using the PUPD as described in the book, but we’re having difficulty is knowing whether to follow the principles of shush-pat and carry on for 7-10 mins after the crying has stopped… or whether we put her down a soon as she stops crying as per PUPD! We have tried putting hand on LOs chest and and Shh shh shh past her ear but that doesn’t appear to be effective – maybe because we’re missing the patting?
She cries before her head hits the Sleepyhead, so do I pick her straight up again? Earlier I just walked out the room after the 15th or so PU although she was still crying, which turned into a mantra cry when I left and she stopped. 5 mins later it was time to wake her from her nap. She was just about to fall asleep again! Does that negate our efforts if I don’t actually let her get back to sleep when she is learning to self-sooth?
Also her swaddle becomes very loose during the PUPD and ends up riding up over her face after a couple of goes (adds to my reservation about her still being swaddled)
5. I recently started looking at routines as a way to help her sleep during the day. I curtailed her snacking and soon realised she could go for 3.5-4 hours between feeds, but was getting tired after about 1.40 so we have her on a 3hr 30 EASY with 1.45 A time.
E 7:00 (A 1.45)
S 8:45 (1.45)
E 10:30 (A 1.45)
S 12:15 (1.45)
E 2:00 (A 1.45)
S 3:45 (1.45)
E 5:30 (A 1.45)
T UP & Bed 7:15
DF 10:45

Apologies from rambling. It all seems to be a little confused at the moment!

[creations]

Hello and welcome to BW forums
Let me see if I can answer a couple of your questions.

1.   Night time - until very recently my DD used to sleep ON me at bedtime. I've recently managed to slide her off of me so she's now lying next to me in bed. We have a side-crib attached to the bed which I'd like for her to be sleeping in. Is there any advice about transitioning from co-sleeping next to me to a side-crib which she uses for daytime naps? She is EBF, she uses me as a prop during the night anywhere between 2 – 5 times and appears to wake early each morning and I hold her through the jolts (whilst pretending to be asleep in case she does rouse completely). I have tried feeding treating it as a night waking and putting her back to sleep next to me, but it hasn’t worked to this point.

Yes. Here's a link to some information from Pantleys No Cry method.  Although it is not BW we consider it to fit well with the BW ethos and is probably just what you need as you have already started a gentle wean of co-sleeping:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0
There is quite a bit there to read through, get the idea of it and then put your own steps into place adapting the idea to what you need to happen.
I'll just add, if you are breast feeding you will expect to feed a couple of times in the night and possibly more with growth spurts.  If feeds are more frequent than every 3hrs then you may be using the breast as a prop and can begin to wean those.

we put her down to sleep around 7:30pm in the crib one of us has to hold her through the jolts at transition times. We've generally been quite successful at this since we started a couple of days ago, but how many days/weeks/months do we have to do it for before she is able to see these transitions through independently? Would we have to do this throughout the night if she's sleeping in her crib at night time?

Of course LOs do need help at nigh at timest but it would not be expected that you need to hold through the jolts and help with every transition. As your LO becomes more independent sleeper this should reduce significantly. Jolting and lots of NWs in the early part of the night can be linked to being OT at BT or OS (over stimulated), so check your last A time isn't too long or too stimulating too.

2. Related to this – as I mentioned, she is EBF and uses me as a prop to get back to sleep during the night (usually after a night feed she will fall asleep and when I lay her down she will rouse and want my help to get to sleep).

This is covered in the gentle removal plan link above

3. Naps - she sleeps in her crib for naps (swaddled in a Sleepyhead in her side-crib) but because she wakes after 30/45 mins we spend half the nap time holding on to her to help her through transitions!
We recently had to reswaddle her as she didn't seem ready for the transition yet. I'm scared to take her out of the Sleepyhead in case she rolls on her tummy and can't move to breathe. She is able to roll on to her side if unswaddled

Teaching her to fall to sleep independently will eventually help with the transitions.
Regarding the swaddle. I would think if she can roll it is likely more dangerous to keep her in the swaddle rather than take her out of it.  LOs who can roll tend to be strong enough to protect their airway even if they can't yet roll back.  I would do whatever you think is safest.

4. If and when she cries at nap time we have started using the shush-pat to calm her down, but can't do it lying down as it’s hard to get her rolled over in the Sleepyhead and pat her back, so we pick her up. We are trying to get her to be able to self-soothe so using the PUPD as described in the book, but we’re having difficulty is knowing whether to follow the principles of shush-pat and carry on for 7-10 mins after the crying has stopped… or whether we put her down a soon as she stops crying as per PUPD!

I would follow the method of shush/pat. PUPD is a last resort method really and we don't suggest it for LOs this young. With shush/pat you do of course pick up if LO is crying and not settling, you continue shush/pat in arms until fully calm, or nodding or even asleep (depending what stage you are at) and then continue to shush/pat in the cot until asleep and beyond into the deep sleep phase (again depending how far along she is, you do keep moving in steps towards independence).
No need to roll LO to pat her back, just pat her nappy area or hip instead, not super hard of course. it produces enough rhythm to sooth in the same way.

She cries before her head hits the Sleepyhead, so do I pick her straight up again? Earlier I just walked out the room after the 15th or so PU although she was still crying, which turned into a mantra cry when I left and she stopped. 5 mins later it was time to wake her from her nap. She was just about to fall asleep again! Does that negate our efforts if I don’t actually let her get back to sleep when she is learning to self-sooth?

We never leave babies to cry alone, however if you feel you know your baby well and are discovering that she prefers you to let her fall to sleep alone instead of you with her then sure try it.  I would hover outside the room and go back in after a very short time if her cry has not reduced to a mantra or she has not nodded off.  Parents being in the room is about staying with LO so they know they are not alone and are safe and cared for. Whilst you might not be able to successfully stop her crying you are still keeping her stress levels down even if she is making a huge fuss. When you leave the room stress levels raise unless of course she is just glad you've gone so she can get some sleep!  Mine was kind of like that too.  I had to leave the room to let him nod off and then go back in a couple mins later to remove his lovey so he wasn't sleeping with an item in the cot (unsafe at that age).


I realise you are trying to get her on a routine and in the early days it is advised to wake LO up at the end of nap time even if they only just fell asleep. In this instance I would have left her to go back to sleep and perhaps let her have 40 mins or so.  yes it take the routine off track but if she is so close to self soothing and nodding off peacefully without help, well that's a great things, I'd give her the chance.

Sounds like you are doing well
Hope this helps. Let us know if you have more questions, or how you get on

[Katet]

Adding to previous comments, it is important to think of helping  a child to sleep better as a journey, a process, not a right or wrong way.

It sounds like you've worked out some patterns with your baby
Now with this,

Earlier I just walked out the room after the 15th or so PU although she was still crying, which turned into a mantra cry when I left and she stopped. 5 mins later it was time to wake her from her nap. She was just about to fall asleep again! Does that negate our efforts if I don’t actually let her get back to sleep when she is learning to self-sooth?

I'm a bit confused, but I assume you were trying to get her to sleep, she settled enough with a mantra cry for you to leave the room & settle, but then you looked at the clock & it was time to feed her again.  For me I'd say firstly - watch the clock less, if your goal is to have her sleeping better then let her get the sleep... as a parent who's BTDT (& struggled loads along the way). ALWAYS look at the big picture, much older example, but I think it clearly explains, if your goal is to get the child to a bath as efficiently as possible & it works by piggybacking them to the bathroom every night... you are achieving your goal, if you have to drag them kicking & screaming because you think they should do it happily your way, then your goal isn't to get them to have a bath, your goal is to get them to go to the bath "your way"... 2 different goals, KWIM. So with the sleep, you kind of need to look at if your goal is to achieve more independent sleep or is it to keep to the clock times & then work out which one is "more" important, it may not be more important 100% of the time too, but at that time it's about what is better.

Parenting is a balancing act & getting your young baby to sleep is too, so it's a matter of, not so much where to start, but where you think you can work the hardest & get the most benefit for the family unit.

I didn't know BW until my 1st was a toddler & with my second and an almost 2yo around I couldn't do long periods of Sh/pat to settle DS2, but what I did learn was babies really work on predictable routines. I did a lot of the calming down of my DS2 by sitting with my DS1 with DS2 on my shoulder & read DS1 a story, I'd then take DS2 into his bed (or stroller or the car - DS2 did lots of catnaps because of DS1's needs) & that story (mostly) signified time for sleep. I actually never did sh/Pat - doing Shsh did my head in & patting on the back was too hard, so what I did was stroke the top of his head & hummed the same tune. The idea is always to be less involved over time.

My DS2 (who is 12 in 11 days - how did that happen?) strained a ligament in his ankle, it's strapped up & he's doing physio, but the idea is that over time it will get stronger & he needs less strapping, he's about to go back to sport (he does a lot) but will play with it  strapped (hopefully to lesser degrees) for at least a month even if it is pain free... sleep with little ones is a lot like that, initially they need lots & lots of support, but over time you test to see if you've reached a point you can lessen the support, sometimes you can't sometimes you can & sometimes (like with teething) you take a few steps back & feel like a lot of the hard work was wasted, but you do see improvement with effort.

Ideally we would like her to be sleeping in her crib for all naps and bedtime. Easier said than done at the moment!

Part of the reason it feels hard is because babies resist change & take a while to learn new routines & the only way for  a baby can communicate confusion is to cry & throw in being tired (& at such young ages they go from tired to overtired in 5mins) they cry loads. Hard as it is work with it, created the predictable routine and be relaxed yourself... the more relaxed you are (yep super hard) the more relaxed your baby becomes. If you have a predictable routine before you put your baby down, it doesn't mean early on they will do it without crying, but over time they will improve.

Finally, "baby steps" think how long it took for your baby to be able to control enough muscles to smile & think, if it takes about 6weeks to do that, then it is realistic to need  help (lesser and greater degree depending on temperament) to relax enough to get to sleep for their first year of life.

[Franchoski]

Thank you for your responses.

We've stopped considering PUPD as an option for us at this stage. We've embraced the shush-pat and have seen some success with it. At first she screamed like she was being seriously injured when she did the shush (obviously making sure it was loud, but not into her ear!) but now I think she's starting to enjoy it. Last night we were able to eventually settle her to sleep without picking her up from the crib  and this morning I had to pick her up but it was only for a matter of 2 or 3 minutes and she was so relaxed it was almost no effort on my part watching her drift off into a good sleep (where she has now been for 40 minutes!). She has a couple of times settled and become very relaxed, but not fallen asleep and in a couple of cases was just smiling at me, but then my partner went to settle her and she fell asleep after 15 mins or so.

As we've only been on a routine for the last few days or so, we will continue with the easy routine we are on for the foreseeable future, starting with the easy 3.30 (1.45 A time), coupled with good bedtime and nap time routines and hope that this will eventually be enough to help our LO to have some peaceful sleep and be more contended during waking hours. Of course we will remain flexible with it (easier said than done with a partner who has Aspergers!). We still have the short 30-40 minute naps and have also had a couple of early wakings (6am instead of 7) which we've made adjustments for by slightly delaying the first nap and keeping the activity time before bed very relaxed.

Addition to the above* having just had a traumatic shush-pat session, what do you suggest if shush-pat doesn't seem to be working fighting/screaming)? EASAS?

Thank you 

[creations]

It sounds like you are doing wonderfully

Have you read about W2S (wake to sleep), here's a link, have a look at naps option 1 it describes how to help LO transition from one sleep cycle into the next, it can be really useful for sleep training. If you have questions do let me know.  the link says go in at 30 min but if she is waking at 30 min you need to go in earlier, say 25 min
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0

If you don't have success with W2S and LO fully wakes then it's recommended to try to resettle to make the nap longer. We generally don't suggest continuing for more than 45 mins.  If this is too hard or too tiring (which it can be) then you might try for a shorter time.

Otherwise, yes get her up, do an A time, check when E is due and either E early or do another S then E on time.