3 month old can't make it to 3 hours

[annesmama]

Hi all,

We are working on our 45 minute nap issue over on the sleep board, but I wanted to ask here about feeds.

My LO is 3 months old (3 months and 1 week to be exact). She has always been a snacker =\ Over the past week or so, I have been trying to do EASY more, feeding once at the beginning of A time. But it's been very so-so. Sometimes she'll go the 3 hours between feeds, other times she wakes up from a nap at the ~2:30 mark and cries and cries until I feed her. She does *eat* pretty vigorously right away, so I think she is hungry.  (But then again, when I try doing a second feed partway through A time, it doesn't seem to make her nap longer.)

How do I get her to eat more at feeds?  She really only eats properly on the first side. When I give her the second side, she sucks lightly, keeps popping off to smile at me, sometimes clamps down kinda hard -- at this point I generally take her off since she's clearly not eating.  Total time 15-20 minutes.  I do compressions already. Do I just have to make her wait until she's hungrier??

[deb]

You say she's always been a snacker, but has she always been THIS much a snacker? I'm wondering how much is related to the 3-month growth spurt.

[annesmama]

Haha, she was actually worse before I started EASY.  Back then I was offering a feed any time she got fussy, so like... every hour. So she's made a lot of progress, and maybe I just need to wait?

[deb]

My other thought is that if you're dealing w/45-minute naps, you could be mistaking tired fussing for hungry fussing.

I haven't seen your other thread, but have you seen this? We dealt w/the 45-minute nap monster as well. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0

[annesmama]

Hmm, so for you, you did an extra feed at 1h and the extra feed just disappeared on its own? Presumably she started eating more at the first feed? Interesting... worth a shot I suppose... I already know she can do 1:40 wake times...

(For reference, here's my other thread: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=286558)

[becj86]

sometimes clamps down kinda hard

Mine did this when I had a second letdown because I had a very vigorous (overactive) letdown and he was just about drowning. Imagine it kind of like getting used to a tap running at a certain flow and you can swallow all the water but someone comes and turns it on full bore.

Hmm, so for you, you did an extra feed at 1h and the extra feed just disappeared on its own? Presumably she started eating more at the first feed?

I did much the same thing and yes, just moved the top-up feed closer to the main feed and it disappeared on its own.

[*Ali*]

Eating every 2.5hrs at 3mo is not a snacker!  It's perfectly normal for BF babies to eat more regularly, especially if she is short napping. Please don't make her wait. Tracy said you must always feed a hungry baby anyway but BF research has moved on significantly since the BW books were written and we like to think Tracy would have updated her advice to reflect the more natural feeding patterns of EBF babies had she still been around to do so. It is much healthier for a baby to eat a little more frequently, it's one of reasons BF babies are less likely to be obese as adults.

[Shiv52]

I agree with Ali. If she is sometimes going 3 hours but sometimes 2.5 then I think she's doing great. All theee of mine did similar at this age. The 4 month growth spurt was crazy and feeding all the time and feeds settled to more a 3/3.5 at that stage. You're doing a great job xx

[annesmama]

Ohh, OK!  I thought 3h was minimum and less than that meant there was an issue. Good to know.

[*Ali*]

No, it's just a guide, not a minimum. All babies and breasts are different ☺

[becj86]

Oh goodness! I'm so sorry I didn't pick up that you were waiting for 3hr to pass before feeding. I did wonder why you weren't feeding immediately on wakeup. I shall take that lesson and ask next time I wonder

[annesmama]

Haha, don't worry, most of the time the gap is other things -- going potty, trying to extend the nap, or sometimes she wasn't yet hungry. If she was actually crying and I couldn't soothe her, I figured she was hungry and fed her.

[annesmama]

Follow-up question: I was doing on-demand feeding before trying BW techniques and it was really quite frequent! How do you reconcile on-demand feeding with a routine?  The point of the routine is for her to know what to expect, right?  For example, "we always eat after we wake up".  But on-demand feeding would be to wait until she's hungry, right?

On the EAS schedule she was getting fussy at the end of her A time and short napping, so we're trying something more like EAEAS (or AEAEAS) now.  She tends to want the second feed after 1h30m to 2h.  I was really hoping for an EAS schedule so that I can leave her with DH or a babysitter after the E and know she won't be hungry for 3 hours.  Is there a table of average ages for when feeds start spacing out?  She's already 3.5 months. Or should I expect things to stay like this until we introduce solids?

[becj86]

Well, most people find on demand is more frequent than if you were to do EAS and feed on wakeup.

I'd try a topup after an hour rather than feeding every 2hr myself but that's following my rather dismal experience feeding a gassy baby whose tired signs I mistook for hunger at around 2hr. Have you tried do the nap when she starts seeming hungry?

[annesmama]

Yeah - I think we are the opposite!  I used to think her fussing was 'tired' and I would try to put her down, but she wouldn't go to sleep easily and always woke up early.  Per other thread, we've been extending her A times. The last couple days I've been feeding her at that fussy mark, and now she'll usually perk up for another round of A.

Maybe I'll do a mix: always feed on wakeup, so we have that routine, and then second feed on-demand. It'll be EAEAS but the second E isn't timed. Does that make sense?

[*Ali*]

Yes I think your plan is a good one.

All babies are different and even the same baby will have slightly different feeds on different days so there's no table. Yes, many EBF  babies feed frequently until solids are established.

Have you considered pumping a bottle and seeing if she'll take that if you need to leave her? Or some babies will feed from an open cup with a little help and some mess.

[deb]

I don't know why I didn't think to ask this sooner, but does she take a pacifier/dummy? Some babies just like - and some NEED! - to suckle *something* as they drop off to sleep.

[annesmama]

@Ali, We haven't tried pumping yet, but I do have a pump. Was kinda hoping to avoid the hassle of washing/sterilizing bottles and pump equipment, but I guess I should find some time to figure out how to use it...

@deb -- no, we haven't used a pacifier.  We didn't want to deal with pacifier weaning, so we figured we'd try first and see if we can manage without it.  We've been okay so far -- she can sleep with or without nursing.