Author Topic: What did I do Wrong???  (Read 222 times)

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Offline KiusMum

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What did I do Wrong???
« on: May 16, 2017, 15:19:35 pm »
Hello All,

I started sleep training my son from March this year(18 month old then) using the BW techniques. Up untill then he was mostly rocked or patted to sleep either in his cot or in my arms or a combination depending on the situation. However he always went to sleep in his cot. Depending on his NWs and the quality of my day, he would usually then end up in our bed sometime during the night. When I started in March(using the GW technique), initially it seemed a bit tough, however I persisted and he soon adapted. By mid- April, I was actually at the door, i.e. in mere 45 days, I had gone to rocking him in hand till asleep to doing his bed-time routine and laying him in bed, standing at the door till he fell asleep. He would get up and check in between if I was still around , sometimes grumble a bit but would still eventually fall asleep on his own. I got a couple nights at this stage where he slept through or woke up only once/twice and settled quickly.

Its now mid-May and I am back to standing next to his crib singing and rubbing his back till he falls asleep.  ??? ::) :-[

I should add that I was sleep-training only at bed-time. At nap-time, he was still being patted in bed till almost asleep and then back rub or stroke. He goes 3 days a week to nursery where he is also patted at nap-time. Also for NWs, he was patted or held whatever got the job done the quickest and eventually around 3 am he landed up in bed with me. My plan was when the NWs reduced a bit, start tackling them one by one and then possibly the nap.

Around mid-April I think we moved him to his own room and tried WI/WO to get out of the room a few times, cos I was feeling I had to move to the next stage. However, it didnt work out, cos he just launched into full  scale crying, till I didn't come in the room. I then tried just standing outside the door and even half in and half out. However that dint work either and I would end up being in the room again and calming and stroking him down. It got a bit worse, so I reversed my steps a bit and now as I said I almost back to where I started with him.

To make matters worse, his NWs have increased and it takes me much longer to settle him even if he's sleeping next to me in bed.
I am at my wits end now, with bad sleep for almost a month + my elder son to take care of and I am working part-time.

Could someone please advise me as to what should my steps be?? I think I need a proper plan here to stick to with him esp. to reduce his NWs and atleast have 1 long stretch of sleep ( 4-5 hours??)

Thank you..any suggestions/advice would be very much appreciated.

Offline ginger428

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2017, 21:03:21 pm »
Hi Kiusmom,
Could you please post his current routine at home and nursery, and what it was around 18mo?

The 18-20 mo age is tricky to do sleep training in my experience, but not impossible.  It does require a lot of patience and diligence for that long term goal.  I'm not sure if you advised here to only train at BT and not NWs, but I would definitely recommend training for all night sleep.

Let's take a look at his routine first.  I know it's hard, but hopefully we can help you get to a good place and sleep for everyone!

Offline KiusMum

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 01:46:46 am »
Hi ginger428,

Thank you so so much for the quick response..
This was his 18 month routine.

Wake up -   7.45 - 8.10
Nap       -    12.50/1.00 - 3.10
Bedtime   -  In bed around- 8.15 pm, Asleep by 8.50/8.55pm


It usually took him atleast 30 mins to fall asleep at bed time, 20 mins if hes calm and suitably tired.
His nap was 2 hours or 2.5 hours and he very rarely woke up in between the nap.

This is current routine
Wake up - 7.30 - 7.45
Nap (at home) - 1.10 - 2.30/2.45 ( very rarely will go till 3.00 pm)
Nap ( at nursery) - 12.10 - 2.10/2.20
Bedtime   -  In bed around- 8.15 pm, Asleep by 8.50/8.55pm[/color]


He is waking up earlier, napping lesser with almost the the same bed time. I have tried to move the bed time a bit before but not with much success. The earliest I can get him in bed is 7.45 pm. so hopefully he can fall asleep by 8.15/8.20 pm. Also the NWs have increased and its getting really difficult to settle him even with patting and rubbing his back all the time. Another thing I forgot to say, is that he needs water in the night. Earlier it was every once in a while, but now its for every NW. He will wake up and he will look around for it or point to where it is usually kept. I thought it was becoming a habit, so last night I didnt give it and ended up trying to get him back to sleep for an hour 15 mins( 11- 12.15 am). When I finally gave him the water, he fell asleep in 5 mins.  :-[. I had to give the water on every NW after that as well ( He woke up 4 times).

I did only BT, because it is too much to handle all the NWs for me, I don't get even a 3 hr stretch of sleep + have to fix bkfast,/school lunch etc in the morning. I figured if I could just get eliminate one NW by fixing BT, I could then work on the others.


Offline ginger428

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2017, 01:22:02 am »
Hugs, I know you are thoroughly exhausted! This was a tough stage for me, too!

Wake up - 7.30 - 7.45
Nap (at home) - 1.10 - 2.30/2.45 ( very rarely will go till 3.00 pm)
Nap ( at nursery) - 12.10 - 2.10/2.20
Bedtime   -  In bed around- 8.15 pm, Asleep by 8.50/8.55pm[/color]
Basically his night sleep is 10.5 hrs, and daytime is 1.5-2 hrs = 12-12.5 hrs. total sleep. His activity time before nap is shorter than the avg for his age which is 6-7, especially if he is going down at 12:10. It is common at this age, ~20+months, for total sleep to decrease slightly or daytime sleep to decrease as it starts to interfere with night sleep. Which leads me to...

He is waking up earlier, napping lesser with almost the the same bed time. I have tried to move the bed time a bit before but not with much success. The earliest I can get him in bed is 7.45 pm. so hopefully he can fall asleep by 8.15/8.20 pm. Also the NWs have increased and its getting really difficult to settle him even with patting and rubbing his back all the time.
Early wake ups and long NWs at this age indicate too much day sleep, and sometimes too early of a bedtime.  An OT/UT cycle starts when they're not tired enough for bed, then sleep late, have night wakes, and/or wake early and get OT.

I would cap his nap at 1.5 hrs max, and also move his nap later to 1:30 and BT (put down at 8:30).  I would stick to a 1:30 naptime and 8:30 BT no matter what his wake up time is. And do this for at least 3-4 days. Can you ask nursery to do the same? I normally wouldn't suggest doing both nap capping and moving nap time at the same time, but in your case, I think it's worth a try to help him get some sleep before attempting any sleep training. As a warning, you may notice that in a few weeks, he'll sleep later and later... sometimes past 9.  That's a sign to shorten his nap some more. (Which allows you to keep BT the same).  This happened with my son and many others here!

Earlier it was every once in a while, but now its for every NW. He will wake up and he will look around for it or point to where it is usually kept. I thought it was becoming a habit, so last night I didnt give it and ended up trying to get him back to sleep for an hour 15 mins( 11- 12.15 am). When I finally gave him the water, he fell asleep in 5 mins.  :-[. I had to give the water on every NW after that as well ( He woke up 4 times).
This involves him being awake as his sleep needs are changing, and him testing limits (it's normal and healthy).
I know how hard all this is, trust me! I've been there... but with a lot of hard work now, you will be able to reap the benefits of healthy sleep for your family. I am hoping his NWs will be resolved with the routine change so let's hold off on taking the water away just so we can get you and him sleeping before addressing sleep habits.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 01:23:34 am by ginger428 »

Offline KiusMum

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 00:54:34 am »
Hi ginger428,

If I put him down at 8.30, he will sleep around 9.15 or maybe later. Isn't that getting too late for him? This was his
day yesterday, I put him down around 8.20 pm and he took approx. 45 mins to fall asleep.

Routine Yesterday
Wake up - 7.25 AM
Nap     - 1.02 - 2.45 pm
In bed  - 8.19 pm, asleep by 9.05 pm

There was a lot of protesting and screaming last night as he wanted me to rub his back or pat him, but I just sat in the chair
repeating his night time phrase and singing his songs. He was screaming so much he started coughing, so I had to give him water a few times.I rubbed his back towards the end and patted the railing which helped him to calm down a bit.

Night Wakings
-------------
NW 1 - 10.50pm - 11.20 pm ( Was crying, had to be picked up, calm down, give water , then pat in bed)
NW 2  - 11.39 pm - 11.52 pm   ( Seemed a bit hot, so gave meds , water, then pat in bed)
NW3 - 1.00 am ( Just rubbed his back, settled in few mins)
NW4 - 2.00 am ( Got him up, gave water, got him in my bed and patted a bit)
NW5 - 5.30 am- 6.45 am( I was so tired by then, he was basically rolling all over for 30 mins, till I got up and started patting him. Fell asleep around 6.45 am. Eyes were closed most of the time while I was patting)

Wake up - 8.00 AM.


I tried to continue back-rubs or key phrases at NWs too, but his crying quickly escalates and turns really bad
so I ultimately patted him. How should I address NWs??

I will put him down for his nap at 1.30 pm as you suggested and post how it goes. He's having a slight temperature so seems a bit cranky.
I am very tempted today to put him down for bedtime even later than 8.30, if it gives us both atleast one long stretch of sleep. :(

Offline KiusMum

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 01:19:50 am »
Also wanted to add that he is a premie baby , so he is 20 months corrected age and 21.5 months actual age. I am always confused as to what should I go with regarding his routine.

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 14:01:12 pm »
Hi ginger428,

My lil man is sick :(.. however, here's his nap and bedtimes for today.

Nap - Today was much better, I put him down at 1.15 pm and he fell asleep by 1.30 pm with a lil back rub and a few pats. He was really tired.
Duration - 1.30 - 2.30 pm ( After 1 hour, I heard him babbling for a few mins, but not crying so I didnt go in until 2.45, when I realised he was awake and just talking to the toys. I tried to resettle cos I thought it was too short a nap, but he didn't want it)

We had a long day and had gone out for groceries and shopping, so he was very tired by the time we got home and dinner was done.
His fever had also spiked up and he was coughing and sneezing , and didn't eat much( which is very unlike him). He was so exhausted, he fell asleep while having his night time milk and that was 8.25 pm. :).

So yes his nap was at 1.30 pm( 1 hour) and bed time was 8.25 pm. I heard him talking a few times in his sleep, but he has not woken up yet (its 11 pm now), I will post tomorrow how the night was :)

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2017, 01:10:42 am »
He woke up the second I hit post  :(.  Anywas he had a high temperature last night, so he was very very restless and drifting in and out of sleep. I gave him his meds twice in the middle of the night and his wakeup time was 7.45 I think, cos he simply walked out of the room to his dad as the door was open while I was still asleep.

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2017, 02:25:39 am »
Night Wakings
-------------
NW 1 - 10.50pm - 11.20 pm ( Was crying, had to be picked up, calm down, give water , then pat in bed)
NW 2  - 11.39 pm - 11.52 pm   ( Seemed a bit hot, so gave meds , water, then pat in bed)
NW3 - 1.00 am ( Just rubbed his back, settled in few mins)
NW4 - 2.00 am ( Got him up, gave water, got him in my bed and patted a bit)
NW5 - 5.30 am- 6.45 am( I was so tired by then, he was basically rolling all over for 30 mins, till I got up and started patting him. Fell asleep around 6.45 am. Eyes were closed most of the time while I was patting)

My lil man is sick .. however, here's his nap and bedtimes for today.

I was going to say based on all the night wakings above I'd say if he's not sick already he's about to show signs he is... IME those frequent wakings are often congested ear related where they find it hard to sleep & often medication gets rid of the pain but not the pressure & so they wake lots feeling uncomfortable.

It's very hard to work on sleep when they are sick, so at least short term you just have to roll with it.


Also wanted to add that he is a premie baby , so he is 20 months corrected age and 21.5 months actual age. I am always confused as to what should I go with regarding his routine.

One of the Mum's I know who had 3 Premie babies told me that her specialist said that by 12months old because there is tends to be such variation in children walking talking etc that really the adjusted is no longer relevant. Esp as things like "dental age" can vary so much... eg her 7 week premie baby got his first tooth at 7months (not adjusted) & my term baby got his at 8months & things like teeth, walking & talking do have an impact on sleep & there is a huge variation in the age they do that (the differences in my 2 who were both term, is big... like one crawling at 5months & the other at 10.5months!!)

Based on his age the molars (& canines if he doesn't already have) would probably be a factor too & those last teeth were hell in this household for both my children, lots of runny noses & grumpy children & poor sleep.
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2017, 03:30:18 am »
Kiusmom- so sorry to hear he's ill. Yes what Katet said regarding working on sleep- we often give DS whatever he needs such as early naps or long ones, etc...

Molars were definitely a factor for us too at this age.

Keep us updated!

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2017, 13:43:10 pm »
Yes I do agree with you katet and gingernut..have to wait till he feels better again..

Been to the doc today, he's got a massive ear infection so on antibiotics now. Poor baby hes also coughing a lot..
Because I was at the doc's today, he had his afternoon nap in the car (1.10 -1.50 pm ish). I tried to resettle him after we got home, but even though I was APOP, he didn't go back to sleep.

On the plus side, I put him in bed around 8.15 and sneaked out of the room. He just fell asleep by himself. ( must have been completely exhausted..) He usually wakes  1 hr 50 mins or 2 hrs after he falls asleep at bed-time, but tonight he cried a bit in his sleep a lil at that mark , but before I could even reach the room, he had fallen back asleep again. :o

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2017, 02:04:49 am »
Aww so sorry to hear about the ear infection- KAtet was right. Thankfully we haven't had any ear infections (by some miracle) but definitely fluid and teething cause ear pressure aches (i assume) which I heard makes it hard for them to sleep comfortably at all. And to think he might be experiencing both. Sending wishes for a quick recovery!

Did he get drops along with antibiotics? I wonder if the drops soothed him enough so he could rest comfortably.

Also, not sure if this is the case for you, but don't feel you have to stick to 8:30 BT during illness especially if his nap was shorter than usual and he's fatigued.  The general rule is to have BT within 30 mins so if he's visibly tired, shoot for 8:00 or even 7:45 asleep.

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2017, 04:03:04 am »
No he's not got any drops, wonder if that would have helped him?? Should have probably asked the doctor.  :( The antibiotics that hes having has made him go off food, so basically he's not eating anything like just a few spoons here n there. He will take a few bites of crackers, sultanas, dried apricots and drink milk/water. Any ideas on what to give him to eat which might be gentler on his tummy?? Its making me go crazy that he wont eat.

No I didn't aim for 8.30, I was actually aiming for 7.30/7.45, but I had such a battle at dinner time, tried to offer him different things with the hope he might eat something atleast..after which I finally gave up , gave him his bedtime milk and put him to bed. :(

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2017, 21:19:53 pm »
Oh I know it's difficult when they don't eat, but it's really typical when they're not well.  My DS can go as long as 3 days without a solid meal, just snacks like you listed. As long as he's drinking, it should be fine. If it goes longer than 3 days, talk to the ped again. Maybe a milk and fruit smoothie would entice him? DS likes yogurt and smoothies.

Ah, I see.  Perfect.  Personally, I love 7:30 BT!

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Re: What did I do Wrong???
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 14:41:49 pm »
Hi ginger428,

So after about 2 weeks of being sick, hes up and bouncy and his usual self(almost  ::) ) now. So I started his sleep training (GW) yesterday. I had accomplished being at the door 2 months back, but that has completely stopped working. I had to be beside his cot most of the time and rub his back or put my hand on his back till he was almost asleep. He got up every hour after he slept and I got him in my bed around 1.00 am.  :(

Tonight, I am more resolved and have put a mattress on the floor in his room, so I can sleep there and don't need to get him to my bed. I did the usual bedtime routine and put him in bed at 8.30 pm and walked out of the room. He babbled for a while and then started whimpering. I went in when it was an actual cry and not just complaining. I didn't leave after that and tried verbal assurance, but he was having none of that. I had to rub his back or put my hand on his back to calm him till he was almost alseep. He was asleep by 9.20 pm. There was quite some anger and complaining and crying involved, but I tried to avoid him going to the hysterical stage.

So asleep by 9.20 and I have had 2 NWs already,
10.20 - had a drink, then shussh and back rub ( took 10 mins)
11.06 - only back rub ( took 3 mins)

I think I have a bad night in store, but I will report tomorrow how it goes. His nap in nursery today was quite long ( 12.30 - 3). However tomorrow he's at home, so I can control the nap time and length. I have few qs on how should I continue with the process..

He will wake up between 6.45 - 7.30am. Should I still stick to the 1.30 pm nap you suggested earlier?
At nap time, he tends to play around a bit in the cot before he falls asleep, so is it ok for me to put him in his cot and leave the room and only enter when he seems upset??
Should I take it slow and start the process right from the beginning , i.e. back rub, then standing near the cot..and then moving farther and farther away? or should I just stand away and use verbal assurance even though he seems hysterical.
Thank you so much..fingers crossed for a decent night.