5 1/2 mo early waking / any clue ?

[IsabelaTsuji]

Hello, I'm from Brazil and me and my husband have applied Tracy Hogg's methods since our LO was 5 days old. Now he is 5 1/2 mo.
(I apologize for the english, I'm trying my best)

For the past 10 days he has early waking ( by 5:20 am), I read about it here in the forum, so I'm trying the 3-2 transition naps for the last 3 days.
The problem is it doesn't seem to be working.

Our routine yesterday:

5:20 am woke up (not crying); I waited 10 min, I gave him his pacifier
6:15 am woke up, BF
8:30 am nap (I tried to stretch the longest he supported, but he had all signs of tiredness)
10:00 am BF + A
13:00 pm nap
14:20 pm BF + A
17:00 pm CN 20 min (was so tired) --> BF
19:20 bath + BF (a little, almost nothing)
20:00 pm overtired, BT (easily)
04:15 am noises, slept by himself ( by this moment I thought this would work as "wake to sleep")
05:20 am woke up, 10 min hearing, I gave his pacifier, slept
06:15 am BF
08:15 am nap (very tired)

I feel it's hard pushing his first A time by the morning.
I mean, am I doing anything wrong ? Bath time too late ?
Should I not give him the pacifier by 5 am ??

I'd appreciate if anyone could help us. Thank you.

[creations]

Hello and welcome to BW forums

Does your LO usually fall to sleep with a paci?  I'm just wondering if he can fall to sleep without it at nap and bed time okay and if it is only at 5am he needs it to go back to sleep?
What happens if you don't give his paci at 5am?  Does he go back to sleep eventually or does he end up fussing and then crying?  Are you able to resettle with shush/pat?

There are only really two options to shift that morning WU (wake up) time.
- The usual way is to keep the first nap at a good time and not allow it to creep earlier, I see your first A time is getting harder and harder to keep him up and it is getting shorter.  It is okay for him to get a bit OT (over tired) for this nap for a few days whilst you get back on track. I would move it later until his WU time improves again.  As you were on a good routine before you ought to be able to get that back.  LOs are sometimes reluctant to extend the A time so you will need to encourage him and keep him awake.
- The other option is to give a long third nap rather than a CN, just for one day, then do a full A time and then BT, this moves BT very late for the day but it could help to shift that morning WU time.
Then with the later WU, if it is significantly later you could decide to go for a two nap day, two long naps and normal BT.

hope this helps

[IsabelaTsuji]

I really appreciate your help.

For the past 2 days the first A time were a bit longer, I'm working hard on it.

Corcerning the pacifier, I see he is able to go back to sleep most of time without it, but I never tried (shame) to begin sleeping process without it (I usually give him his pacifier and his blanked, he does the rest in a couple of minutes)! Maybe on the EW issue he is more like " the day has started".

Tonight I did the wake to sleep at 4:30, but it seemed that I caused him to wake up at 5:10 am, a continuum...

[creations]

If you wanted to drop the paci use then the safe time (per SIDS guidance) is from 6 months. I believe this is also the time that it is advised to drop it for the health of teeth which can be damaged by lots of paci use. However lots of people choose to keep the paci longer and especially if it is only used for sleep and not all day (ie less risk of tooth damage) and LO eventually learns to re-plug.

It might be easier for now to just let him use the paci at that early Wu if it helps him go back to sleep more quickly, it could help you get a better WU time and then the day on two naps is easier to handle... then in a few weeks you could do a paci drop once he is settled into his two nap routine.
It's your choice of course.

just watch out for that last A time before BT.  When the morning A time is shorter than you need the extra time ends up at the end of the day, making a long A time before BT and that can cause disturbed night sleep and early waking...so it is worth making sure the awake time is distributed across the day and in particular that tricky first A time.

[IsabelaTsuji]

Hello!!
Things are not doing well around here in Brazil 

He is now 6mo and faced bronchiolitis last week, so I let him sleep during the day as he wanted to.  for the last 2 days we are going back on track. He now eats solids as well and likes ir very much.

The new issue are night weakings , most of them screaming ( never happenned before, he used to sleep all night long since 7 weeks old).

Yesterday:
7:00 WP + BF
8:00 fruit
8:30 fuzzing (Im trying to strech this first A, today he did 2:15 A time)
10:00 A + BF
11:00 solids
13:15 sleep
15:00 A + bf
17:00 solids
18:00,tried CN but refused
19:00 bath + bf + BT easily
20:00 woke up , wanting to play
21:40 sleep
02:00 screaming / rejected pacifier / PUPD seems to help , tried 4 times
03:15 sleep
04:30 screaming / BF ( didnt know what to do) / slept easily
6:45 WU calm

I am really confused and frustred because things were great until 3 weeks ago.
 doubts :

1) is the last A time too long ? But he refused CN, and early BT woke him up early night
2) is it ok to BF him 1h before solids ?
3) should I insist in PUPD for the night weakings?
4) is it possible for him to be hungry in the middle of the night ??
5) rejecting paci enforces he is hungry ?
6) does nightmares happen to babies ? He seemed scared and also concerned looking at me ( while on dads arms during one PUPD time)

Hope to fix this , Im an intensive care physician and I have some night shifts, Im really concerned about his nights without me.
Best regards,
Isabela

[creations]

Oh dear I'm really sorry to hear your LO had bronchiolitis   That's awful.  Good he is on the mend though.

My DS had bronchiolitis when he was 10 .5 months old and was hosptialised for 4 nights. What I found after he returned home was that he needed to feed in the night. As he was much older than your LO we had already had several months where solids were well established and no night feeding so it was a huge surprise to me - however it makes total sense that a baby who has been very poorly will have missed out on some calories over those days of illness and needs to make up the loss somehow.  As their tummies are very small they can fill their tummy in the day and still not gain the calories they require which leads to night feeding.  I am not 100% sure how long the night feeds went on for my DS, maybe a few weeks, they stopped naturally when he had re-gained what he felt he had lost.  In effect it was a period of "on demand" feeding.
For now I think if you feel your LO is hungry in the night you should go ahead and feed - and reassess in a few weeks.  It's normal anyway for a BF baby to have a night feed so you might need to do some additional feeding.

Milk is usually 1hr before solids - that's fine.

13:15 sleep
15:00 A + bf
17:00 solids
18:00,tried CN but refused
19:00 bath + bf + BT easily

I'm not sure when he fell asleep for BT.  If it was 7pm this is too long awake since 3pm as it is 4hrs.  If LO refuses the CN you need to move directly on with the BT routine so feed, wash/bath and feed again, get him to bed.

hope this helps

[IsabelaTsuji]

Hi,

I'm still working hard around here but we haven't reached sleeping all night.
About the early waking , it's resolved.
The first A time lasts almost 3h now.
Total daily naps 3 - 3.5h (sometimes a CN).

For the last 10-15 days we're facing night wakings. It's 1 our 2, he is not able to resettle himself. He doesn't wake up crying anymore, it seems talking to himself, for a minute he is quite, then goes back to noises, it ends up yelling. So I go there, don't make eye contact and don't even turn the lights on, touch his chest; immediately after  I try to replug his paci he starts screaming.
The night before yesterday (at 3:00) I tried PUPD but I only could stand it for 15 min, the goes arching backwards (sorry the english)... I breastfed him, the accepted his paci and slept easily in the crib.
 Tonight the woke up on a different time (4:10), I responded to him after 10 min, he got really angry with me trying to replug his paci. I picked him up for about 5 min, put him back in the crib, this time the accepted the paci and could relax and sleep. Woke up at 7 am.

I'm really in doubt about these night wakings, if it's hanger or not... tonight it seemed it wasn't.

In your experience, is refusing the paci is a classic sign of being hungry ? He refuses it only during night wakings.
The pattern of night wakings are better than it was last week after the bronchiolitis, I'm trying to reach all night sleeping like it used to be since he was 7 wk old.

Best regards.

[creations]

It's great to hear your initial issue is resolved and there are not more early wakings

Can I suggest that you begin a new thread for this new question?
My first thought is that if he needs a feed in the night this would be quite normal (yes I would think being hungry in the night normal at this age and refusing a paci I would think a sign of being hungry) but I am not experienced in either BF or paci use so with a new thread with these details in the title you could get more experience replies from someone else in the community.

[IsabelaTsuji]

I really appreciate your help, thank you very much, especially because the first issue is resolved !!

[creations]

You are very welcome