Trouble getting 16 month old down

[Tabathagucci]

Ok thank you!  That gave me courage! We did 12:15 yesterday and she slept 1.5 hours.  So better.  She has a fever now but once she's well again how long do I wait to push to 12:30, assuming I'm still getting EW and short nights?

[Lindsay27]

I would hold at 12:15 for a good few days, let her body adjust to that timing.  Things won't change over night so after a week or so if you don't see adjustment to the EW then I'd push A times again.  It's a bit of a chicken and the egg situation ya know, the EW won't disappear until you move the nap, but it's hard to make the nap later with the EW.  Definitely just hold at 12:15 for a bit and we'll go from there!

[Tabathagucci]

Ok will do!  She's taken short naps the last couple days (1 hr yesterday and 50 mins today) but she's been sick so I'll chalk it up to that. She's still being a nightmare to get to bed.  Only nurses for a couple minutes, then we read and turn out the lights and she immediately asks to nurse again.  I usually say no but sometimes (esp when she sick) I give in and then she barely drinks anything so I turn the lights out again and she asks to nurse again.  So I say no and start to sing her the songs we sing before putting her in the crib and she's super feisty. Kicking her legs, wiggling in my arms, etc.  so I put her down.  Then she wants to be picked up again, or if she settles, we often have to go back in within a few minutes.  This literally goes on for an hour before she finally settles down. I'm hoping this will get better as the nap shifts later, but any suggestions in the meantime?  I have a 5 year old too and it's just a bummer to have to spend an hour getting her to sleep every night and missing out on time with him.

[Tabathagucci]

ps she's now 17 months

[Lindsay27]

I don't have much nursing experience to be honest, but I can tell you that at 19 months my DD still takes a bottle before bed, so I wouldn't consider it to be uncommon...it works for us and I don't mess with anything that's working!  It's probably a comfort thing - if she's using you as a soother I can completely get not wanting to allow her to nurse, but if she's actually taking a feed then I probably wouldn't change it.

[Tabathagucci]

Thanks for the reply!  I've gotten to nap back to 12:15, but her sleep is just awful so still haven't pushed past that.  Guess I should bite the bullet and do it even if I get OT naps for a bit.
Wondering if I should be worried...On average she gets about 11.5-12 hours of total sleep.  According to all the sleep experts she should be getting 13 hours. She's usually a pretty happy kid and doesn't seem overly tired.  Should I worry about this (see her doctor or hire a sleep coach) or not stress?  Thanks!

[Lindsay27]

12:15 isn't an abnormal time for a nap on 1 nap - what time is WU usually/her general routine right now?

[Tabathagucci]

She is all over the place.
Last night I put her to bed earlier at 6:05 because she was yawning all afternoon (she slept just under 9 total hours the night before).  She kept crying when I put her down so I nursed her in the dark and she fell asleep around 6:30.  Woke up at 4:30 am, I nursed her and she fell back to sleep by 5:30, awake at 6:30.  I don't normally nurse her to sleep but figured she was so OT I wanted her to get some rest finally!
On average this is probably our schedule but it varies a lot from this:
Wake 6:15
Nap 12:15-1:35/45
In bed at 6:20
Asleep by 7/7:30
Wakes anywhere from 2-4 am for 1-2 hours.

I've tried keeping bed time between 6:30 and 7 but she usually falls asleep later and wakes earlier if I do this, so I backed it up earlier.  She still takes forever to fall asleep, but falls asleep earlier and sleeps more total hours if I do earlier BT.

[Tabathagucci]

I seriously want to cry I'm so tired.  She napped 1h25m yesterday.  Tried to put down early last night, ended up being 6:35 because she wouldn't go in her crib earlier.  Asleep at 7:10, woke at 4:10 am I waited to see if she'd fall back to sleep, nursed at 4:40, asleep at 5:10 am, woke at 6:10 am and is now chatting happily on her crib.  She used to nurse back to sleep but lately won't do that.

Is it possible she just doesn't need any more than 11.5 total hours of sleep?  Should I be putting her to bed later???  Like 7/7:30?  Sorry for whining but I haven't had a full nights sleep for as long as I can remember.  My son was sleep trained and STTN at 8 months and has been a great sleep since. This is driving me batty!

[Tabathagucci]

Wondering if we are now in the 18 month sleep regression?   She just turned 18 mos today.  She used to fall asleep semi-fast here and there but lately it takes over an hour every night.  We usually have to go in several times.  I am not nursing her to sleep.  I've tried changing our routine, brushing her teeth earlier so she's not so fired up (she doesn't like it).  Reading more books, reading no books, taking her for a walk like we do before nap.  Nothing works. She falls asleep perfectly fine for nap. This is only bed time.... could really use some advice !

[creations]

Hi there.  I haven't read your full thread but saw you didn't have any replies for a few days so thought I'd stop by with some support.
How are things now? Still bad?

Just looking at the last few posts I see you were moving the nap a little later.  I would try shifting it another 15 mins if it was me.  Set at 12.30 for a week and see how the nap lengthens out.  The nap starting and ending later (and being longer) should help with the BT and hopefully help with the long NW too.
Often with teh 18 month regression we suggest to keep teh routine as it was when it was last steady before the regression hit - but often I have also seen that once the regression is past the nap needs to move a bit later anyway which is why I suggest it earlier rather than waiting.
Hope that helps - the 18 month regression will pass, it really will, but it feels like for ever when you are in the middle of it.  You were lucky if your DS didn't go through it - mine did and he was sleep trained from about 8 wks old and still had terrible phases of sleep disturbance for all sorts of reasons.

[Tabathagucci]

Hi and thank you!  Honestly, things haven't been stable since early July really.  She's always had an early morning waking (around 3-5) but I'd just nurse her and she'd fall right back to sleep.  And before early July, she'd go down easy for both nap and night.  Since then her bed time has been a nightmare and her early am waking has now been 1-2 hours long, with her only going back to sleep for an hour.  I used to be able to nurse her back to sleep (if she had a short night) when she woke in the morning but now she's up and ready to go for the day and barely wants to nurse.
Looking back at my sleep tracking site, it looks like the longer her day, the longer it takes for her to get to sleep, so I'm guessing pushing her nap is the way to go.  I've got it pretty much at 12:30 now but things haven't improved, except for two nights ago she fell asleep after only 45 mins with us having to go in once or twice (this is an improvement!) and then last night, we put her to bed at 6 (due to a 1 hour nap)and she fell asleep in less than 30 mins with no going in to her. 
To add to the confusion, last night I decided to stop nursing her at her early morning waking.  I'm hoping this will help the waking? I'm now doubting myself wondering if it's the wrong time to do this, but now that I've started, I feel I should stick with it for a few nights.  At 3:45 am I t took 2 hours for her to go back down.  I'm hoping tonight is a little easier!  Anyway, your two cents would be very much appreciated!  This mama desperately needs some sleep!  Just a note, her nap has been around 12 since April.  I couldn't push it due to ODS's school schedule, so maybe it just needs to be pushed waaay further to make up for all the months of not pushing the nap?

[creations]

I would not be feeding an 18  month old in the night (not unless there was a bad illness).  I think you're doing the right thing to drop the NF and just deal with all the sleep disturbances in one go - it can't really get worse can it? I mean yes it's likely to get a bit worse for a few days/nights while she gets the idea that things are different but then once it's done it's done.

If your gut instinct is to shift the nap later still then go for it. 1pm?  Whatever you go for I'd stick at it for a good week to see what happens.  Are you going to be able to do the school run if nap is at 1pm though?

[Tabathagucci]

Thank you!  I think I'll start with 12:45 after this week and see how it goes.  My son will now be in school till later so I can make it work.
Second night of dropping the feed went slightly better.  It still took 2 hours and I still went in 3 times but each time I went in was easier and shorter than the night before.  The bonus??? When she woke at 6:45  after being back to sleep for 1 hour...she went back to sleep again till 7:55 am!!!  Yayyy!!!!  Hays without me going in at all....

[creations]

Possibly too late to say this but if she woke later today I'd use that as the trigger to move the nap later.
Good luck!