10 month old - night sleep no more than 2-3 hours or even less sometimes

[cvet7]

Hello,
After a few days my son will be 10 months old but he was never a good night sleeper.
With the help of "creations" in this forum, now my DS has a very good easy routine, naps are also ok - we had such an improvement - from sleeping only in my arms, now he sleeps only in his cot during the day naps. Unfortunately, nights are awful.
But first, EASY looks like this:
WU 6:30-7 am
E 7 am - BF
E 8am - solids
A 8-10 am
S 10 - 11 am
E 11 - Bf
E 12 solids
S 2-3 pm
E 3 pm - BF
E 4 - solids
BT - 6:30 - first bath, then BF and sleep. Sometimes BT 7pm if he slept a bit more in the afternoon
The routine can vary +/- 1/2 hour. Sometimes he sleeps more than 2 hours per day but rarely and it doesn't influence his night sleep.
For day naps I put him in cot with paci, hold his hand/ rub his head and talk to him and after a few minutes he's asleep and spits the paci, then I leave the room and come back when he is awake.
Nights - I BF him and most of the nights he fells asleep on the breast, then move him to cot. If he's not asleep whilst BFing I make the same routine like day naps in his cot. But no matter how he fell asleep, after 40 min he is awake, I rub his head or hold hand or give paci and he is asleep, but after 30 min - same situation. Until midnight I do this around 4-5 times so I get really tired and took him to sleep with me. In this way he doesn't wake up so often but he rolls a lot. Then it comes a moment when he is awake again but it's impossible to calm him down - he kicks legs, arches back, doesn't want me to touch him and tries to remove my hand, doesn't want a paci, cries a lot and even screams. The only way I can sooth him is with BF. I see that it's not hunger as he needs just a few minutes and he's asleep on the boob. But most of the nights I BF him 3 times (around 11pm, 2am, 4-5am)
Now I'd like to move him in his own room as I really need some rest. Since he's been born I have never slept for more than 3 hours in a row and I'd also like to teach him to sleep alone in his cot, not to be dependent on my presence. While we are co-sleeping he can sleep 2-3 hours without waking up.Last month he had some teeth problems and I could sooth him only with BF (every 2 hours) and I took him in my bed as an attempt to gain more sleep and I know that he got used to it. Now I'm prepared for some sleepless nights only to teach him to sleep in his cot in his room.
So what do you think - should I continue BFing during nights, or just to try to cut some feeds or....?
When he wakes up what should I do - I tried a few times not to BF, but he cries and screams a lot, then I took him and go to other room as a distraction but when he sees that we come back to the bedroom he starts crying again - once I did this for more than 1,5 hour and in the end - BF again and sleeping together.
Now all his 6 teeth came out, so he seems ok, not in pain anymore. That's why I think is appropriate to move him in his room but I cant understand why he screams so much in night - he looks sleepy, but cries, kicks legs, etc. Maybe he knows only to continue sleeping with BF and can't do it by himself?? And how will I teach him as I cant calm him down

Thank you in advance for spending time reading my problem!

[creations]

Hi there
Sorry you didn't get any replies yet.

Your day routine does look pretty good   Lovely consistent times of E and solids and naps.

Day routine - Whilst your day looks lovely there are a couple of things you might do to tweak your routine a bit. It's possible that your LO could be better rested overall if one of those naps was longer than 1hr, so rather than two naps of 1 hour (with the occasional one being longer than 1hr) you could look for a routine of one nap being 1.5 - 2hrs long and the other being shorter (so it could be as short as 30 mins or it could remain at 1hr).  Having one really good day nap may help to improve night sleep, not because there is necessarily more sleep in the day but rather because one of the naps is "restorative" (1.5 - 2hrs long) and leaves LO better rested.  Day sleep leads to better night sleep.

Night sleep - three is a chance he is OT at night which is causing repeated NWs in the early part of the night, not moving from one sleep cycle to another but waking instead, not being relaxed enough to stay asleep. A longer A time before BT can lead to this (LOs last A time looks like 3.5hr) or from not having a "restorative" sleep in the day.  I will say, I have seen lots of well settled routines with the two naps being 1hr, it is totally fine so long as it is totally fine - does that makes sense?  If it isn't working then it can be changed.

Independent sleep - this can impact rather a lot on how well LO is able to resettle on those NWs.  If he is hungry or teething he will likely need a BF more frequently (BF during teething is pain relief rather than hunger) but you have lots of NWs there where you say you are eventually BF almost as a last resort attempt to get him back to sleep rather than the need to feed which indicates a need for him to learn to sleep alone.  Independent sleepers will still be up half the night screaming their heads off during teething or illness, that part can't really be avoided.  But the difference is that it isn't every night or as routine and independent sleepers tend to return to independent sleep just as soon as they are able to and with little encouragement.

It sounds like moving him into his own room is a good idea, and for you al to get a better sleep.  I moved my DS at around 9 months (from a hammock by my bed to a cot into an adjoining room). I won't say it was easy, it sticks in my mind as one of the harder transitions, I was exhausted, but it was pretty much done in 3 days and back to routine again.  If you have any back up you can call in to help you during this transition now is the time to ring in some favours!  If someone can mind your LO during the day, in the A time, then you can just have a little rest and take over again at nap time when the harder work starts.

My suggestions would be:
- to increase the A time before one or both naps to help one of them extend.  A times at 10 months can be 4hrs.  How about moving in 15 min increments (with just one of the A times) over a number of days and see how your routine pans out?  3hr 15 for the first day or two, then 3hr 30 and hold there for a week.  it's your choice based on what is suitable to you or what you think LO would prefer whether you extend the first A time and nap or the second.

- begin to wean the help at nap time.  You begin WD as usual and put down as usual, holding hand and speaking etc. Then you reduce the hand holding and talking quite rapidly, it is taking only a few mins to fall asleep so I think you need to reduce from just one minute after putting down. The key aspect here is for you to *stay alert* to your aim (it is easy when you are tired to just get into the rhythm and pattern of hand rubbing and talking and just get him to sleep as quietly and quickly as possible, that is no longer your aim, instead your aim is independent sleep) so you are *hands off and mouth shut* when he falls asleep.  If he kicks up a stink you go through the entire thing again (pick up if necessary if it is the only way to calm him) going back to full hand rubbing and speaking until he calm and the reduce reduce reduce.  And repeat. And repeat.
He *will* go to sleep.
Just as he starts to get used to this you take the next step which is WD as normal, into cot as normal, hand rub and speak for a moment and then "night night, call if you need me" and leave the room.  The aim is to leave the room while he is awake.  The moment he calls/cries you go back in and either speak or hand hold or both (pick up if absolutely necessary) until he is calm and again reduce reduce and "night night call if you need me" and leave the room.  He needs to know you will *always* come back when he needs you, and after a short time he will learn this and trust in your return, the result is he needs you less.
I would do this in the new room if you want to move him. Begin with nap 1 so that by BT your have had two good practices and you are both getting used to this new way of him going to sleep.
Expect to return to him in the night, but do not bring him to your bed.  If the night is utterly awful you can sleep on his floor and continue the hand holding and verbal reassurance as needed.  BF for hunger in the night (so if it is 3hrs+ then go ahead) but otherwise you need to hold firm with yourself and not use the breast to sooth but use your voice, touch and presence. He is safe, you are with him.

A note on hand holding - make sure you are holding his hand or stroking his hand and he is not holding yours. You need to be able to take your hand off without him grabbing you.

A note about sleep training - it doesn't happen by magic, you make it happen. He doesn't need to come to your bed, he doesn't need to feed every 2hrs over night. He may well scream, cry, kick, stay awake a long time but at the end of all that he *will* sleep.  Sleep training is not about forcing him to sleep, it is about reassuring him that he is safe and you will always return when he needs you.  Try to shift your own focus during this time so that you are not looking for the fastest way to get him to sleep, instead you are looking to give him a gift - the confidence to sleep alone.

One last thing - if the night goes totally to pot and he is awake for most of it then eventually falls asleep in the early hours do not be tempted to let him sleep in long past his WU time. Maybe 1hr (so 8am) but otherwise, get him up and get him on his routine, he may be unhappy but this will help get your routine on track and the sleep training done more quickly. By nap time he will be very tired and likely more willing to go down.  Again don't let him over sleep for nap even with a bad night.  You need your routine relatively on-track to get to a decent BT and for him to be tired at BT for the next night sleep.

I hope this helps and I think from the huge progress you made before you will be able to have the sleep training done and dusted in a week - it sounds nice doesn't it?  Once he is sleeping independently it is much easier to look at routine and any remaining night wakings to see why they might be happening where as now it seems like inability to put himself back to sleep.

any questions let us know.

[cvet7]

Heyy, I am so glad I see you again 
You helped me soo much and I didn't want to bother you again. So thanks a lot for spending time to give me advice for these night wakings, you are a life-saver

Next week my DH will have a week off so he will help me to move our DS in his room and to teach him to sleep there alone.
Meanwhile I will work on independent sleep during days. I will reduce my 'help' for him to fall asleep. I will also increase A time. Actually there are days when his first nap is longer than 1 hour and the second is only 1/2 hour. Unfortunately there are also days when both naps are just 40 min but when he's awake I cant help him continue sleeping. So I hope with increased A time he will sleep more.
I am also confused about the paci - sometimes he expects me to  give it to him when I put him in cot and I think he connects the paci with sleeping. If it is so, then maybe I should remove it, as it will be obstacle for independent sleep. Sometimes he doesn't want it at all or spits it immediately after closing eyes. Sometimes I use it during night wakings to calm him down. Is it better to remove it once and for all? I know that it will make nights even harder but I am prepared.

So thanks again for all advice, I appreciate the support. Next week I will do the big move and I will write again.
Have a great evening!

[creations]

You helped me soo much and I didn't want to bother you again. So thanks a lot for spending time to give me advice for these night wakings

You are welcome

I am also confused about the paci - sometimes he expects me to  give it to him when I put him in cot and I think he connects the paci with sleeping. If it is so, then maybe I should remove it, as it will be obstacle for independent sleep. Sometimes he doesn't want it at all or spits it immediately after closing eyes. Sometimes I use it during night wakings to calm him down. Is it better to remove it once and for all? I know that it will make nights even harder but I am prepared.

I am likely not the best to give advice on paci use as my LO refused to take one so I have no real life experience of using one or weaning one. However, I do know, had he taken one, I would have weaned it at 6 months. That's based on the reading I did prior to his birth and after.
Paci use for new borns can reduce the risk of SIDS so can be of benefit.
LOs who rely on the paci for sleep should not have it dropped cold turkey (ie just taking it away) prior to 6 months due to increased SIDS risk in those who are reliant on it.
It is considered safe to drop cold turkey from 6 months.
Continued use of a paci after 6 months can effect tooth growth and speech development (but I note many people say there is a difference between using a paci just for sleep and using a paci all day long which I see as being quite logical)

I have seen many people on the forums who prefer to keep the paci and let LO learn to re-plug themselves, their LOs find great comfort in it so they do not want to remove it.  Personally I would think it's easier to drop it now rather than later.  Also personally I'd want it gone at 6-12 months and not beyond (for reasons of teeth and speech). But it has to be said, this is a personal decision for you and your DH to make.
As you are about to go through some pretty big changes and are expecting to have your sleep disturbed whilst teaching LO to sleep in his own room etc I would think this is an idea time to drop the paci cold turkey rather than go through one change only to have to face another later on.
If you decide to drop the paci cold turkey I suggest:
- pick a day (day one of sleep training in his own room) and cut up and bin all the pacis so you are not tempted to dig one out for him when he won't sleep, crying is okay if you are with him, he can cry and fuss and he can still know you are there and you are keeping him safe.
- introduce a lovey if you don't already have one. Here is a link with some info:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=67676.0
you can't force LO to become attached to a lovey of your choice but you can do lots of things to encourage attachment. A lovey can be a huge source of comfort. My DS has used a muslin square since day 1 (I did not leave in his cot during the early months as it is unsafe) and he now takes a very small muslin square in his pocket to school, it looks kind of like a little handkerchief and is one of the only things school will allow (toys of any sort including cuddly toys and "lovies" were not allowed at any of the nurseries or schools my DS has attended but no one has ever said no to a handkerchief).

hope this helps

[cvet7]

Hi again!
1. Me and my DH decided to remove the paci once and for all and now I see it's really harder for my LO to calm down but I am confident that it's the right decision and after a week or later everything will look better.
2. I introduced a lovey a week ago - a plain muslin square but he doesn't pay any attention to it. I take it everywhere with us while playing, nursing, sleeping, etc. but he doesn't even take it or if he takes it - just throws it somewhere.
3. I significantly reduced the time I rub his head, talk, etc for naps. I even succeeded a few times to just calm him down in his cot, tell him it's time for sleep, I'll be in the other room, call if you need me and go out of the room and he fell asleep on his own. But it worked only for the morning naps. Afternoon naps - I had to come back to the room a few times and in the end he fell asleep while I am still in the room.
4. Moving in his own room
Monday afternoon his room was ready and the afternoon nap was there - he fell asleep easy but slept only 30-40 min. The mornig nap was 1 hour.
BT 6:30 pm - after BF he was awake when I put him in cot. At 7 pm he fell asleep, I was in the room but no talking and a little touching at first to settle him, after that I was just sitting next to the cot.
1) waking - 7:40pm - I just touched his head for a second and he continued sleeping immediately
2) waking - 9pm - the same, fell asleep almost immediately when I enter the room and touched his back
3) waking 10:30 pm - BF, after that there was 1 more small waking
4) waking 2:30 + BF - he cried a lot, I took him, walk in other rooms and whenever I put him in cot he cried again so I did that a few times and at 3:30 he fell asleep
5) waking - 5:30 - a lot of crying, he didn't want to come back to sleep so at 6:30 I stopped trying and BF him and the day began.

Tuesday
1st nap - 9am I put him in cot but there was a lot of crying, kicking, etc. At 9:30 he fell asleep when I turned on a lullaby song but at 10am he was awake.
2nd nap - just a disaster - 1pm I put him in cot and again crying, screaming so loud, kicking legs, doesn't want to stay in cot. When I took him, it's ok and whenever I come closer to his cot, he starts crying and when I put him there he just screams loudly.1 hour I tried to sooth him but he doesn't want even to close his eyes in the cot. After that we had a doctor appointment and in the car he slept half an hour (2:30-3pm)
BT- 6pm, 6:30 he was asleep, not very hard after nursing. He waked up a few times but came back to sleep pretty easy. 10:30 pm BF. 12:30-1:45 am - again crying, screaming, we walked around and after a few tries he fell asleep in cot and then waked up + BF at 5 am. It was not easy but at 6 am he fell asleep until 7:30.

Wednesday
1st nap - just a disaster - put him in cot at 10:35 but again a lot of screaming and kicking. I tried 1,5 hour but unsuccessfully. So time for eating. 11:45-12 am - BF - he was about to fall asleep while nursing so I decided to put him in cot but then the screams began again. So we were playing, he was so cheerful, I don't know how can he has so much energy.....
2pm my DH tried to put LO in cot for sleeping but same situation - when he sees his cot he starts crying.
In the end at 3:15pm we just went out for a walk. He fell asleep immediately at 3:30 in sitting position and slept for an hour.
BT 7:30pm - after nursing, put him in cot awake but he fell asleep immediately. I just could't believe.

I don't know what's happening - I expected really heavy nights - to spent a lot of time in his room, he almost not sleeping at all at night, etc but it's ok for now. And now days become awful - can't understand his attitude, why doesn't want to sleep in cot for naps (these naps were perfect before) and nights are better (before that we were cosleeping as he didn't want to sleep in cot). It's so strange.
Tomorrow I'm determined for day naps not to give him any opportunity to sleep anywhere but his cot. Is it possible not to sleep the whole day? As I saw today maybe it is possible, he's just so stubborn, I can't calm him down.....I hope he is not afraid of falling asleep in his cot.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading it!
I hope you have some advice for me 

[creations]

When you say the naps were good before, I think that was in a different room, was it?
I  moved my DS's room when he was about 9-10 months and he was a super independent sleeper and he didn't even move very far but he was totally frustrated by the move.  It should settle in a week or so, the thing is you just need to keep at it, comfort him so he knows he is safe and he will eventually be happy there.
You can also go into his new room to play in A time, be clear telling him you are going to play or put laundry away and not that he is to sleep. If he is happy enough pop him in the cot iwth a toy or book, play a little peek-a-boo, this can really help with confidence that you will always return and spending time in a new room during A time when not expected to sleep can build comfort and familiarity with the room too. If it looks, smells, sounds different to what he is used to then he needs a bit of time to get used to it.

A lovey you can't force on him but you can keep going with encouraging it, maybe sleep with on on you so your scent is transferred and he can smell you when he is offered it.  over the months every time you cuddle him (especially when there is food, bumps and scrapes, teething...all those times he needs great comfort) he can begin to associate the muslin with you and with comfort.

[Twosweetgirls]

Hello!!! I a totally in the same situation!  It's been super helpful to read your post. Thanks!!!