Author Topic: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!  (Read 5200 times)

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Offline JennVanessa1083

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2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« on: June 21, 2017, 02:19:04 am »
Hi!

Question: DS has molars under the gums but no cutting. I am in a cycle of 30-1hr BT resistance and shorter nights but then he sleeps for naps no problem for 1.5-2hrs long. He asks to sleep in random parts of the day but I'm not sure if he's OT, UT/OT, or just a regression with a sprinkling of molar pain.

Sleep and EASY is all over the place...what's a typical EASY for a newly turned 2 yrs old?

I'm soooo lost!!!
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2017, 19:04:29 pm »
.what's a typical EASY for a newly turned 2 yrs old?
this doesn't help you at all but in my experience the typical sleep routine for a just turned 2 year old is - totally off track!!
Your LO sounds totally typical to me.

It will pass. Hope others can help you more!


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2017, 20:04:03 pm »
Lol well at least this is "normal." Yea it's hard to gage if he needs a tweak. I know he tends to nap better if he sleeps between 5.75-6A but bedtime is one big hot mess lol
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2017, 01:39:05 am »
I still have my DS fighting bedtime for an hour 🙄 By the time he falls asleep it's 6A. He still has NW too. Any advise?
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2017, 05:54:21 am »
The bedtime resistance probably has nothing to do with the EASY, at 2yo they can cope with a fair amount of flexibility. It's more about the "cup full" activities they have with their primary carer.  If he's in daycare then the resistance is possibly about not enough quality (what he wants not what you think he needs) time. I know with my boys one needed the cuddles & story time & the other was the play & active involvement, give them the opposite & they became far more "needy" particularly at bedtime.
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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2017, 18:02:58 pm »
He isn't in daycare...he's at home with either me or DH depending on the days. DH is a teacher so he has off for the summer and I work PT 3 days a week.

So how long are the days for 2 years olds? Like if DS doesn't nap until say 6-6.5A then naps for about 1-1.5 hours when is bedtime?

Example of today:
WU 7:30 am
S 2-3/3:30 pm
BT ?

He gets tons of activities in General unless he is just that energetic or starting to drop his nap?
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2017, 18:18:44 pm »
Mine couldn't have coped with any flexibility on sleep times when he was 2yo,. very much into routine - of course that doesn't mean we didn't have BT resistance, birthday developmental phase and the molars caused huge problems but put those aside what he really needed was consistency, a very predictable routine.

You didn't say what time he finally went to sleep at BT, I am guessing 9.30 based on the 6hr A time you mentioned.  9.30pm is certainly too late.  How about cap the nap, how does he do with capped naps?  So many LOs adapt well to it, 1hr, of if this is already common reduce to 45 min or 30 min.  I'd really try to keep BT no later than 8pm but that's my personal limit on BT. I know when mine went through the 1-0 his nights went low, really low, like 9 hrs or less.  A 10 hr night with the nap in place is probably not too bad really until he's ready to drop the nap.
FWIW mine pretty much thought he was ready to drop the nap at 24/25 months but he wasn't, it took him a while of nap resistance and/BT resistance to finally realise that he wasn't that happy and he then went back to accepting nap and night time well for a few months.  So, this blip around the birthday, it is quite normal and can look like the 1-0 drop but the final nap drop might not happen for another 6 months.

Sorry there's no clear answer - I'd try capping the nap shorter as it works for mos even if not mine.


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 03:22:16 am »
Yea I definitely think DS needs the nap bc he sometimes wakes up crying and is definitely more snappy.

So what would be a good starting point in terms of routine? I definitely thinks he thrives best on one. I would looks bedtime no later than 8 pm. 
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 04:03:48 am »
With flexibility I didnt word that well I more meant that there  isnt a one size fits all. I had children who were early risers one was LSN so while one would wake 6/6.30 nap 12 to 2.30/3pm & bed 7.30/8pm the other would wake 6am nap 12-2bed 8pm... if I was lucky... he pretty much only did 10hours at night except on a Friday when he dropped his naps at 3yo  and he did 14 hour nights lol.
 
I think to get a better bedtime you possibly  need to make the nap earlier and shorter as it sounds like hes probably averaging 12.5hours sleep so  with a 7.30am wake up to have an 8pm bedtime you probably gave to cap at a 1hour nap. 
In one of the BW books Tracey talks about how sometimes the reason a child won't  sleep is we are expecting too much sleep in the day/night or total.... I know  until I worked out DS2 was low sleep need that was a problem for us.
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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 04:43:28 am »
That definitely makes sense in terms of not one size fitting all. I find my DS definitely being on the low end of average but still average if that makes sense.

Sorrry! I meant a 8 pm BT with a 7 am wakeup since the most he ever does these days is a 10.5-11 hour nights but lately it has dropped to 10 hour nights due to bedtime resistance and what I imagine OT stuff.

So if I want a 7am-8 pm day, where does the nap fall and for how long?

I so appreciate the great insight!!!
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2017, 06:44:28 am »
If he manages a 6 hour A time id have it so he wakes up by 2pm so hes tired enough for bed so if he does 11 hours at night then probably 12.30pm and cap it at 1.5 hours
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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2017, 08:28:56 am »
how does he do with capped naps?  So many LOs adapt well to it, 1hr, of if this is already common reduce to 45 min or 30 min.
This.  I'd leave the nap start time where it is and cap it at either 1hr or 45 min or 30 min depending on how long he has been napping recently, so it's a 15 min drop on whatever he is used to.  this gives a shorter nap plus increased A time before BT. Both those things ought to help reduce the BT resistance. Take into account at this age the phase of birthday developments can last a while causing BT resistance anyway - so it could be later than ideal for a while (maybe 8.30 by the time he settles) but as the developmental phase passes he may resist less and get to sleep for 8pm.
The reason I would start nap at the same time is based on my own DS and many others I've seen on the boards who totally refuse a nap any earlier than their needed A time.  You're already starting the nap at 2pm and I suspect you would have been starting earlier if you could possibly have done so.
My DS's nap also started at 2pm and there is no way he'd have take a nap a minute earlier.

There is another option - to introduce a NND (no nap day) once per week or even once every 2 wks. Some people find missing the nap once means the routine with on the nap days stays on track for several days (or 2 weeks) afterwards due to the additional level of tiredness.  If you think this might suit your LO then maybe give that a try.

Some different options there for you to think about. You know him best so you can decide which you think is most suitable to your LO.


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2017, 19:41:41 pm »
Great advice!

Ok so he's been averaging 1.5-1.75 in naps. Here's the monkey wrench. I just saw inside his mouth and he's cutting one of his 2nd set of molars! Could definitely be contributing to the sleep chaos. So should I cap the nap consistently at 1.5 the do bedtime at 8?

So:
WU 7 am
S 1-2:30 pm
BT 8 pm?
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 08:35:58 am »
I would try that yes. If though he seems super tired I'd be ready to be flexible with the nap (getting longer if he's totally flat out) and grit my teeth expecting a late and horrible BT if he ends up having a very long nap, simply because with molars coming their sleep can be horribly disturbed and sometimes I felt it was better to let my DS just go for it and sleep a long long nap because I knew he was in pain and having horrible painful nights.
For the basic aim in terms of routine though, yes, what you've said above.  And if needed in some days/weeks cap another 15 min earlier.

And meds for those teeth!  Do you have a bed wedge to elevate his head? It can help to reduce the throbbing pain of teeth.


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 19:43:58 pm »
Ok great! I will try that. Last night was much better with the new tweaks. No fights at bedtime 😌He had some painful NW but slept in. Now he's taking a long nap. I agree with letting him catch up bc these molars seem to be getting more painful as one is cutting and the others are right there 😣

We are giving him meds which help to an extent. We also started applying some teething gel and that seems to help him settle a little bit faster. I was actually considering buying a pillow for him since in general I think he likes to be a little more elevated. I had a crib wedge when he had a bit of reflux. Is that the same thing?
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 21:34:45 pm »
Oh you are doing brilliantly especially considering the molars cutting!!!!

Yes the crib wedge is fine. I used that in my DS's toddler bed and now he has a double bed (I think you call that a twin? size for two people) I still occasionally drag it out of the cupboard if he has a cold or stuffy nose, a reflux flare up or whatever.
At 2yo you can introduce a pillow, sure. I bought some for DS but they were way too thick, had to buy more but a much thinner type and if he is poorly now I layer them and talk him into trying to sit up a little.
You could put a pillow or rolled towel under the mattress too.


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2017, 02:27:49 am »
That sounds amazing!! I'll definitely try putting a towel or pillow under the sheet.

Well it's 10:20 pm here and DS just fell asleep  :o

I let him take a nap way too long and it for sure affected BT. It took an hour or so, yikes!

Today was:

WU 8 am (let him sleep in so he had a 11.5 hr night with 3 quick NW.
S 2-4 pm ( he was out cold and I let him sleep)
BT 10:20pm (I aimed for 9:30 bc of the long nap but that didn't help at all)

I guess it seems capping the nap is the way to go huh?
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2017, 08:58:05 am »
In routine terms I do think capping the nap is the way to go. At least to try.
In molar teething terms though sometimes you have to just go with the flow and let them sleep tbh.  I probably would have done the same and during the nap just readied myself for a very late night (ie physically prepare by having dinner made or by having a nap! Mentally prepare by just telling myself over and over to expect it to be rough, it never seemed as bad once I was mentally prepared).

Hopefully the worst of this teething will pass in a couple of days. Our molar teething went on sooooo long but the absolute worst parts were different to the regular parts. During the regular parts he was in pain but we could get on our routine and obviously during the worst parts we couldn't and there was no point trying.


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2017, 19:11:02 pm »
Lol that's exactly what I did when I saw he past the 1.75 mark. I'm like ok be ready for a long fight at bedtime! Deep breaths, he needs this lol

Yea looks like 2 peaks of one molar has broken through so I'm hoping the other 3 will follow suit. He's usually a very slow teether but it seems that he's cutting this one rather quickly!  ;D

In terms of routine, I will try to just roll with the punches bc he's such a energetic happy toddler so sleep is really the only indicator I have to tell me ok he's in pain. So it's hard for me to judge what days I should cap the nap and which days I should just let him sleep.
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 01:45:36 am »
What do I do when DH puts him down for a nap too late? There have been a few occasions where DS ends up doings around 6.5A; does a OT nap between 1-1.5, but then fights bedtime!

Today I worked and DH had him:

WU 8 am
S 2:30-4 pm
BT still up at 9:45 when I aimed for 9 pm

What gives? Is it bc despite an extra long A he still isn't tired enough or is it I should have aimed for earlier?
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2017, 08:40:27 am »
What do I do when DH puts him down for a nap too late?
I think that's something to talk with DH about  :D
Maybe DH can do the BT shift on the day LO is OT from a late nap  :P

During teething though, it's just hard.  The nap is probably too long to expect a decent BT but at the same time if there is teething pain sleep in the day might be needed.  I think you just have to judge when the worst of it is over and get back to the routine.


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2017, 11:04:05 am »
Haha I might try that so he understands a little more why sleep begets sleep.

Yea I'm going to try to stick through it but just try to get him as much sleep as possible. Hopefully this doesn't last too long!
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2017, 01:46:56 am »
How long does this last?!

I'm still getting crazy fighting before bedtime giving me NWs and now EWs. Last two nights were both over an hour. He tells me he's sleepy at random times of day so it seems like OT but I don't know how to get him to sleep more when he fights and molars aren't cutting yet 😫

I'm literally losing it getting really frustrated at him then feeling super guilty afterwards bc I know it's not his fault. Is there anything I can do?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 11:12:26 am by JennVanessa1083 »
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2017, 11:38:15 am »
Is there anything I can do?
Yes, deep breathing, counting to ten, the "this will pass" mantra.
I know it's hard, I know!!

Unfortunately molar cutting plus 2yo birthday developments can both go on some time.  If there is a level of BT resistance you just can't cope with then I suggest moving BT 30 min later and see if it helps.  I also suggest readying yourself for BT so I used to get my things ready prior to the WD routine.  I used to put a cup of tea or bottle of water, a good book and something comfy to sit on (I sat on my bed which is within verbal reassurance distance from DS's bed) ready before I even started WD. Then at the end of WD I didn't even go downstairs, I just camped comfortably outside his room.  If needed of course I went back in, otherwise I repeated over and over "go to sleep" or "I'm right here, go to sleep" or "everything is okay, go to sleep" (see the pattern).

I think if he is sleepy random times of the day it would help to get back on track with a fixed nap or fixed quiet time for cuddles and book or quiet TV programme, relaxing music, whatever you are happy to do.


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2017, 16:47:47 pm »
Thank you for the support and the suggestions!

So I'm seeing two peaks of a bottom molar cutting through so I'm going to get back to giving him the medicine since I took a break. Teething gel isn't cutting it anymore.

Today he is taking his nap a half hour earlier; probably a combo of short night, teething, and tons of swimming lol. I have been just letting him nap as long as he wants lately but right now he's doing about a 1.5 nap at 6 hours then I put him to bed at 5.5A.

Maybe he's already OT by BT bc of the teething?
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2017, 18:29:40 pm »
Hopefully those molars will come through quickly and calm down x


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2017, 19:41:41 pm »
Yes! Bc I have had a week of consistent hour long bedtime battles no matter how long or short his nap is 😫

Maybe I'll keep BT at 8 no matter what since he's consistently waking between 6:30-7 am?

His nights are getting shorter and shorter; he's getting crankier and crankier from lack of sleep and probably pain. This is a nightmare 😥
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 11:03:52 am by JennVanessa1083 »
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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2017, 15:24:26 pm »
Set BT might be just the ticket.  And pain meds if you can.
Good luck!


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2017, 23:40:10 pm »
Thank you!

DH and I decided on set BT 7:30 since hes waking pretty consistently 6:30-7 am...fingers crossed!
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2017, 11:07:25 am »
Am I going through a sleep regression?  Even with medicine, nights are short and horrendous. He's also making up sleep during naps so what do I do?

He's getting 9-9.5hrs at night and 2.25-2.5 in naps smh total is 11-12 but mostly 11.5 overall sleep. He's getting more touchy and even aggressive. I'm at my wits end.
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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2017, 17:56:06 pm »
Overall sleep in 24hrs was probably around the same for us at that age tbh. Mine had a 2hr nap and nights were about 10hr. During the 6 months from 2yo to 2.5yo his nights shortened enough for me to try capping the nap and try no nap days to try to get better nights as I felt it just wasn't right to have such a short night and surely not fully restorative. What I discovered about my DS though was that the split of sleep with a good nap and short night kept him better rested and happier mood than a shorter nap and wishful thinking on the night.
I would think that most people would suggest capping the nap, max 2hr or maybe move to less in small increments to see if nights improve.  Obviously this didn't work for us, but it works for many.

sorry this is such a hard time for you, it really will pass, these things do, they are awful when you are in them but they do pass.


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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2017, 18:23:33 pm »
Yea it's hard bc he's such a grump when I wake him from a nap.

I could try capping at 2 hrs just to try to keep things as consistent as possible. Also he wakes happy after a short night but also gets touchy and aggressive as the morning goes on. Today he fought his usual nap time by 30 minutes so he was already OT by then. Usually he drops off right away right at the 6 hour mark but because of the short night he was way wired lol

So I guess my question is should I move his nap earlier to help curb OT or should I just be consistent and hope these teeth come out and his regression goes away soon? He is saying two-three word sentences and saying new words so I definitely see how it can be developmental.

 Right now I'm trying to stay at:

WU 7
S 1-3 (sometimes 2:30-2:45 pm)
BT 8

Not happening though since he's making up his lost sleep in massive naps (today was 2.75!) then fights bedtime and goes to sleep way later (tonight was 10 pm so that was a 15 hour day 😳)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 02:17:54 am by JennVanessa1083 »
Jennifer xx

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2017, 12:30:20 pm »
Yea it's hard bc he's such a grump when I wake him from a nap.
Many people say this but also report that with a quiet time immediately after capping, staying in the room for LO to come around - or offering a drink or snack or reading a book etc that their LO recovers relatively quickly. I think on the whole those people who find something that works to reduce the post-capped-nap-grump do find the shorter nap helps get the night longer again.
Flip side, I mention my DS, his grump and bad mood was just awful, it continued the entire afternoon and he did not recover until 1hr before BT and by then the day was over and BT routine was starting.  I just couldn't keep doing it, it was horrible.

I'd stick with your routine as much as you can for now. It does sound like teeth and developmental doesn't it?  I would hope the worst of it will pass and you'll find yourself back to almost where you were.  The problem with long naps really is the late BTs, 10pm is pretty shocking isn't it. I only had one or two nights like that which were the really bad teeth nights when I ended up bringing DS back downstairs due to the level of hysteria (and yes I put kids TV on! anything to distract him and stop that screaming!).

Sorry it's so hard x


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: 2yr old routine? Tons of BT resistance!
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2017, 19:39:23 pm »
Lol listen no judgment here! We do what we have to do as mamas!

Ok I can start capping the nap because I definitely prefer the longer nights then these insane days. Hopefully he can handle the capping. We got one molar through! But looks like another one is starting to make an appearance.
Jennifer xx