21mo crying night wakings for 2 months...please help, we're all exhausted!

[labrodyk]

Hello everyone..

Our daughter (AJ) who is almost 21 months has since 19mo been waking several hours after bedtime crying. She then continues to cry out, rarely really properly settling properly, for the remainder of the night. Previously she was napping very well, and sleeping perfectly through the night. She never cried when going down for nap or bedtime, even if slightly UT. Now... she screams (mum, mum, mum, mum, mum, as soon as I put her in bed) and then when I leave she screams blue murder. She does settle relatively quickly and at nap time she's usually asleep in 5 minutes - sleeping for usually 2 hours. At bedtime, she's always taken approximately 40 minutes to fall asleep.

I tried pushing the nap from 1pm to 1.30pm and cutting it 30 minutes so a 1.5hr nap but I ended up with more night wakings and an absolutely miserable child who then one day crashed out on the floor at 10.30am and slept for 3 hours!

We are continually at the doctors and there is no sign of ear infections, virus, throat infections or anything else.

She sucks her thumb, but no dummy/paci or any other APOP associations. She's been an independent sleeper and sleeping through the night since about 8 months old.

This behaviour has coincided with an absolute defiance to leave me - especially at our local creche and church which (after some climatisation, was running into very happily.

I've had to put her in a big bed with a side rail because of personal back issues and bending into the cot. It's made no difference to the wakings.

My husband has had to take a second job and is now exhausted because we're awake most of the night, each night. Is this just a very very very long phase!?

Previously amazing routine:
WU: 7/7.30
Nap: 1.00 - 3.00
BT: 7.00; asleep 7.30.

Current Routine:
WU: 7.30/7.45 ish (having usually woken crying at 5.30)'
Nap: 1.00 (but is so exhausted she wants to sleep well before this and it's a struggle to keep her happy, awake and occupied). Usually 2 hours but lately has been wanting to compensate and I have on a copule of occasions let her go to 2.5/3hrs but I do cap at 2hr mark.
BT: 7.30; asleep by 8.10.
NW: 10.30/11
NW: every 1/2 hour - 1 hour until say 2 or 3
NW: 4.30/5.30 etc then dozing or goes back to sleep..

Then, from 10.30/11 she wakes crying. She's usually kicks off all her blankets when she wakes at this time so if she doesn't settle within 10 minutes, I go in and tuck her back in say goodnight and then let her whinge and fuss the rest of the night unless she's upside down or really not settling... She doesn't want to get up though, she's genuinely tired versus my son who had happy NW's and I knew it was time to cut the nap...

We've recently changed bedtime to 7.30pm (asleep by 8.10 usually) but no change, in fact i think it's worse.

Could anyone suggest anything I could try or any indications on what could be going wrong? Today she fell asleep in minutes at 12.30pm and I had to wake her to go to a function at 1.15.My 4yo said he'd sleep in her room and see if that helps tonight but she's already woken at 9.20 and 10pm having fallen asleep at 8.10pm!

Thank you,
Laura.

[creations]

Hi there, sorry to see you didn't get any replies yet.

I wonder if she's OT?  As this started at around 19 months I can guess at two things, either you went through teh 18 months regression and changed her routine to account for the nap/BT resistance that comes with that regression and now that she is over it she actually needs to return to something closer to what she was on before. Or, she didn't get the 18 months regression at 18 months, you didn't change anything and the regression actually started at 19 months, in which case you're going through the regression now.
Anything sound familiar there??

Add to that there is a developmental leap at 21 months which probably didn't cause this issue to arise at 19 months but you could be running into it now, just to add confusion to confusion, you know?
And more to add - prime time for teething, if there is any possibility of discomfort in the night I'd try meds before BT and possibly another dose at one of the NWs (obviously following the instructions to give meds 4hrs+ apart or whatever the pack says).  You might also be able to raise the head end of her bed to give her an incline to sleep on which can help reduce the pain of teething (we had a cot wedge which I used in DS's toddler bed, some people put a rolled towel under the mattress).  Have the second year molars come through yet?

I think I'd probably go back to the original routine and see what happens, over a week. It sounds like she is more tired than under tired to me.

[labrodyk]

hello creations, that's okay, I've been so tired and busy I haven't even checked back!

Can I agree with you when I feel like it's OT, not UT? Yesterday she napped 2 hours from 12.30-2.30, BT at 7.30 and she was asleep by 8 but that involved a lot of sitting up in bed, trying to settle and then woke an hour later at 9 and sat up before falling back to sleep. Unfortunately both kiddies (who share a room) continued to wake each other up as they spiked fevers and cold symptoms from midnight so i ended up sleeping on one of their beds because AJ would not let me leave the room. Running on empty today...

You're spot on in that it's a combination of the 18mo sleep regression late and making a routine adjustment to compensate so now OT! I don't actually know what would be best for her routine wise anymore. Even 1pm nap she's positively exhausted. BT at 7.30 i wonder if she's hit a second wind because she was quite hyperactive last night. Should I go back to 7, asleep by 7.30.

I'll try and increase the head of her mattress and offer pain meds because now (along with EVERYTHING else), she's sick but there could be teeth rumbling - we don't have 2yo molars yet, they're all we're waiting on but can see/feel anything yet.

Thank you SO much for your advice, suggestions and hand holding. If you have any ideas what might work for routine moving forward? 7/7.30 into bed works well for us as my 4yo falls asleep easily then and DH isn't home at night so easier to do everything together.
Thank you again.
xx

[creations]

I was suggesting returning to the previous routine but now I see that she napped really well at 12.30, only problem is I dont' know what her WU was like, did she do a full night even though it was disturbed, I mean a good length, no earlier waking??

So for now here's what I think to try:
WU 7
S 12.30 - 2.30
BT 7/7.30

If there is resistance at nap time I would right away let her take an additional 15-30 mins activity and try again (so 1pm).  If there is resistance at BT it depends what happened with the nap really. You'll have to wing it a bit but tbh we all wing it through the regression and molars.  Just do what you can, try to rest and reduce your own work load as much as possible and remind yourself this will pass - it will.
hugs

[labrodyk]

thank you Creations. Her WU was really all over the place but I tried to ensure she was up by 7.30 at the latest. Today was a bit of a write off because she was up all night from 12.30 and then by the time I crawled back into my bed it was 5.30am and we slept until 7.45. She can't breathe through her nose and as she's a thumb sucker it's kind of impossible to get her to sleep and stay asleep.

Nap was only 1hr20 today - i put her down just before 1 and she just kept sitting up (which I assume is because she can't breathe or could it also be UT?) and slept until 2.30. I was trying to get back on track with BT at 7 but all she's done is sit up, roll around wide awake in her bed and it's almost an hour later. I've done all the usual cold symptom relief poor thing.

She wasn't early waking happy previously, she was ER crying and upset and then finally falling back to sleep and I'd let her sleep in until 7.30/7.45...

It's hard to know what to do now she's sick so jut winging it and hoping i'm not apoping too much - especially in the middle of the night. she needs me to stay with her if she wakes or she screams so have put a mattress on the floor now for me.

[creations]

A mattress on her floor sounds like a great idea
I've also slept in my DS's room on occasion when he needed me very close. Personally I feel it's easier to move from there back to self settling rather than to bring them to your own bed and then try to drop co-sleeping.  It's also safer.

If you can get her to sleep a little more sat up that may help.  Maybe some eucalyptus oil or olbus oil in her room too? Could help.

To be honest I would have slept in as late as possible after such a disturbed night (but my DS would never have slept late!).  7.45am doesn't really sound that off track to me considering it's such a tricky phase with illness right now.

Get well vibes for LO xx

[labrodyk]

Thanks creations, I thought the same about the mattress plus both my kids think coming into my bed is party time and want to play, rather than sleep!

My 4yo didn't wake until 9.30 which is positively unheard of, he's been a 6 or earlier, riser from day dot. Poor kid has the worst fever.

Thank you for the get well vibes, we need them. I'll touch base soon if we can't get back into some sort of rhythm once sickness passes.

[labrodyk]

Sorry Creations - 1 more thing whilst we navigate this craziness. With BT recommendation of 7/7.30, given her longer time to fall asleep at night, would you recommend I have her asleep by 7.30 or PD at 7.30 and should I adjust this +/- depending on nap length?

Our easy today was;

NW: 2.30; offered pain meds and she went back to sleep relatively easily!
WU: 7.50.
Nap: 12.45 - 2.45
BT: 7.30 PD; aiming to be asleep by 8.10?

[creations]

I would aim to have BT as a set time with no too much change each day.  Toddlers this age tend to do better on set nap and BTs with minimal change.  To work out BT I would just aim for 7.30 each day and over a period of time assess if this seems suitable. By suitable I mean, not too grumpy prior to BT, not having lots of OT NWs, not too much resistance to BT, and a regular-ish and suitable WU time the next morning.  Any of those things get too tricky and I would then tweak the routine by moving BT earlier or later or shifting the nap time - but then it is "set" again. Hope that makes sense.

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much Creations!

Should I definitely cap the nap at 2hrs? She went down well at 12.30 today, not quite sure of wake up but I let her go until 3pm and I still had to wake her!
Ive stuck BT at 7.30 but she started with the screaming and mum mum mum again only to fall asleep at 8.30. She hadn't been doing this at nap or bedtime the last few days...

Having said that... She slept through until 7.30am, with no wake ups for the first time in 2.5 months!! 

If she wakes later than 7am do you think I need to adjust the routine or leave it?

WU: 7.30
Nap: 12.30; cried when I left and then played a little but asleep from 12.45. Randomly sat up at 1.37 but quickly fell back to sleep and I had to wake her at 2.45.
BT: Will PD at 7.30 and see what happens.

[creations]

I would just leave nap at the same time each day regardless of a slightly later or earlier WU time in the morning, she has a chance to regulate her own sleep and WU time if you give this consistency. Over time if it looks like the nap isn't in the right place you can move it but I wouldn't move it daily.

Looks like capping at 2hrs would be worth a try if she's staying awake for an hour at BT.  It does depend on how she responds to capping and if she recovers well after being woken up.  Sometimes better to do this and have a good BT and night sleep, other times LOs respond so badly to capping that it's better to leave a very long nap but then you have to accept a reduced night sleep.

hope that helps - no clear cut answers but I think you are doing pretty well and it's great you had one night without the NWs! whoop!!

[labrodyk]

Hi Creations, thank you for the support!!

BT tonight hasn't been easy even after capping and I can't white determine if it's UT or OT? sadly I didn't get her down until 7.45 and she did not want me to leave the rom. She kept saying "mum sit bed" and when I sat on her bed she was quiet. I ended up leaving the room singing but she cried briefly and has rolled around, chatted and cried out for over 40 minutes!

She's not toooooo bad at being woken but she's definitely happier when she isn't. I'm just terrible at late bedtimes, 8 would be my absolute maximum but then when she takes 30+ minutes to go to sleep, it worries me 😔

[creations]

Let's see what happens over several days or a week with the nap set and capped.  Hopefully as her health improves we should be able to see the routine settle down. And if then there is still a lot of BT resistance we can (hopefully) view it outside of the additional issues of illness/teething/cold (although nto always possible as sometimes the teething seems to just go on and on).

Hope you had another decent night.

[labrodyk]

Hi Creations! Just checking in to get yours or anyone else's opinion on our week. The first few days of the set nap at 12.30 capped 2hrs was great but then it quickly deteriorated and  she was taking a while to fall asleep then napping 1hr-1hr20. She was pretty miserable those afternoons and resulted in long crying NW's. So i thought back to 1pm would be better but she napped barely 40 minutes today...

It also appears that regardless of whether is is OT and UT she carries on so much when I leave the room. She starts this distressed and anxious "mum mum mum" chant and sits up taking all thr warm bed clothes off and starts freaking out. Ive taken to sitting with my back to her on a littls stool near the door humming a little song. I then stop humming. If she stays laying down and quiet i creep out. If she looks for me I start humming again. If she looks for me and I've left, she oddly doesn't get upset.
Am i going about this the right way?

EASY:

Monday 3-July
WU: 7.45
Nap: 12.30; 12.50-2.10
BT: 8.00; 8.40

NW: 1.30 - 2.15 . crying.

Tuesday 4-July
WU: ? 7.30?
Nap: 12.30
Nap: 1.15 - 1.50.
^ screamed the car down for 15 minutes before falling asleep in the car but woke absolutely hysterical.
Nap: an extra bit of sleep in her bed with me lying down. It took her so long to catch her breath and calm down and then fell back to sleep.
BT: 7.30; 8.10 asleep
NW: 2.00 crying for a little while

Wednesday 5-July
WU: ? 6.50 already awake
Nap: 1.30; 1.40 - 3.40
^ didn't cry for me.
BT: 7.30; 8.00
^ screamed for me.

Thursday 6-July
WU: ?
Nap: 1.15 - 3.15
BT: 7.30; 8.00 asleep

Friday 7-July
WU: ? 7.15 oob
Nap first attempt: 12.50
^ screamed and screamed
Nap second attempt: 1.10 because she was showing all her tired signs and so clingy and whingy.
slept 40 minutes and then dozed, mostly awake until 3.00
BT: 7.30; 8.05 asleep

[creations]

I'm short on time this morning but a quick thought - how about the nap at 1.15pm as it looks like there were a couple of days that it was moving to there and she may settle into that?  Still capped at 2hrs.  What do you think?
BT doesn't look too bad, relatively consistent even though there has been some crying.
The humming/singing seems to be helping so perhaps stick with that for now as it seems to be reassuring her and helping her calm down.  As a form of GW you could perhaps move your stool to outside the room and continue with the humming so she knows you are there but gets used to you actually leaving the room?  If it's too upsetting though I'd just continue with what you are doing for now until her naps and BT sleep times settle a BT more and she seems a bit better rested. She is likely to feel more confident and relaxed once she is getting close to the right amount of sleep.