Author Topic: Baby sleeps through night but day naps are short  (Read 1698 times)

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Offline Stephnaic

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Baby sleeps through night but day naps are short
« on: June 25, 2017, 05:26:43 am »
My baby is 11 weeks old. And for the past week has been sleeping all night from 10pm until 6/7am. I just started reading this book and I guess my baby was doing the clusters in the evening and the DF which helped with a good night sleep.
However during the day my baby goes to sleep then wakes up 1 and half or an hour later making it very close to his last feed. So I   hold him off and let him play (A) until his next feed (3hrs) then there seems to be no A after the feeds. He does A.E.S.Y is this a problem or should I not be concerned and to not fix it if it ain't broke since he sleeps through the night now? Unsure what to do
His routine is
E. 730am
Sleep right away during feed even burping and attempting to wake does not work
Up by 830 .
A until  930/10
Then E
He usually has 1and half to an hour of awake time before his next feed
He feeds about 10 min per side I breast and bottle feed( have been giving him two bottles a day one at his 10/11am feed and then I pump and one at his 6/7pm feed and I don't pump at that point as I never really feel full or uncomfortable and he clusters anyways 
Do I need to change anything if so how?? And do I really need to get rid of evening clusters at this point. He still seems to do one. Feeds at 6 then again at 8  otherwise he does not settle even with a pacifier. I call it the witching hour

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Re: Baby sleeps through night but day naps are short
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2017, 07:33:43 am »
Hi there and welcome to BW forums :)

Cluster feeding in the evening is no problem, certainly if your LO  is sleeping well after cluster feeding I would continue with it. It looks like the cluster feeds and the DF are helping your LO to sleep for a very long stretch over night which is great, just be aware that he might need some additional night feeds in the weeks to come even though he is doing that very long stretch now. Growth spurts can bring the need for additional feeding in the night as their tummies are just too small to take in the additional calories they need during the day time feeds, also because the night feeds signal to your body to make changes to your milk.

With the day time feeds though it sounds like you have a feed to sleep prop, or are developing one, which I would suggest you move away from.
EAS can sometimes look more like EASAEAS but do you see there is still some A between E and S?  This is to avoid the feed to sleep prop.  Initially you can put in just a couple of minutes A time between E and S and gradually increase this over several days or a week.  You need to be prepared to help your LO learn a different way of settling down to sleep - props tend to be parent driven, there is a desire or temptation to get LO off to sleep with the prop because it's the easiest way right now but further down the line it can make things harder because LO isn't taught to self sooth and relies on eating to be able to sleep.
If you can't keep your LO awake during a feed then often a nappy change or a strip down and re-dress works after the feed to put a little bit of awake time between E and S.

Depending how easy or difficult you find moving away from the F2S prop you can either gradually increase the A between E and S and use shush/pat to sooth your baby to sleep instead of relying on feeding, here's a link to shush/pat:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0
or if the association is very strong already and you feel it is too hard to move directly to shush/pat you might prefer to use some tips from Pantley's Gentle Removal Plan, there is a description here:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0

Sometimes it can seem a bit daunting to change the routine you've settled into. I know when I read a BW book when my LO was 4 weeks old I felt a little daunted to move his E to after sleep instead of before sleep and he was feeding every 2.5hrs rather than 3hrs...but actually I just started and it wasn't any near as bad as I thought it might be.

E. 730am
Sleep right away during feed even burping and attempting to wake does not work
Up by 830 .
A until  930/10
Then E
He usually has 1and half to an hour of awake time before his next feed
If you gently move that 9.30/10 feed time closer to the 3hr mark, 10.30am you will be able to put LO down for the next nap without feeding.  LO is unlikely to need a proper fed after only 1.5hrs so you'd use shush/pat to settle him down and then feed after he wakes.

I hope this helps


Offline Stephnaic

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Re: Baby sleeps through night but day naps are short
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2017, 12:50:19 pm »
 "If you gently move that 9.30/10 feed time closer to the 3hr mark, 10.30am you will be able to put LO down for the next nap without feeding.  LO is unlikely to need a proper fed after only 1.5hrs so you'd use shush/pat to settle him down and then feed after he wakes."

I'm not sure I quite understand that. So he wouldn't need to feed at 1030?
And thank you so much for replying to my concerns that was very helpful I will definitely try having more activity time after his feeds. He seems to self soothe himself with his thumb when I put him down to sleep during the day if he is tired enough.

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Re: Baby sleeps through night but day naps are short
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2017, 18:08:30 pm »
Yes, sorry I might have got a bit confused with the way the times were described, it looked like E at 9.30/10.00 then 1hr 30 before another E and the E coming right before S.
Lets look at it a different way, you'd be aiming for E every 3hrs and A to be approx 1hr 30:
WU 7.30
E 7.30
A 1hr 30
S 9.00 - 10.30
E 10.30
A 1hr 30
S 12 - 1.30
...and so on...

But if your LO is falling to sleep at 7.30 at the first E time then it throws off the routine so it might be like this (I'm guessing)
WU 7.30
E 7.30
S 7.30/8.00
A 8am - 9.30am 1hr 30
S *** 9.30 - 10.30/11 (11 wake up with a 1.5hr nap and LO is unlikely to mind feeding a touch late if he is asleep otherwise 1hr nap)
E 10.30/11 (depending how long that nap was)
A 1hr 30
S 12 - 1.30 or 12.30 - 2.00
E 1.30/2.00
and so on

*** That's where you would be putting LO to sleep without feeding, no prop, using shush/pat.

I hope that's a bit clearer - I may still be misinterpreting your information, in which case sorry, it's tricky sometimes to explain stuff when LO is falling to sleep eating and to be honest it is hard to judge if they ate enough or slept enough or how long their A time is supposed to be because it's unclear if they were sleeping or eating.  the examples above might not be what is happening for you, but perhaps looking at them you can work out something suitable for you so that you can make that move towards eating after sleep and breaking the F2S prop?


Offline Stephnaic

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Re: Baby sleeps through night but day naps are short
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 16:03:43 pm »
Thank you so much. It was my fault I was confusing with my data. I've figured it out and have been able to give him some activity time between his feeding and sleeping and it's going great so far.
My other question is when should I start holding him off to start doing 4 hrs between feeds I know the book says by 4 months but when should I start?  And also currently he sleeps in our bedroom in his own cot when would be a good time to transition him into his own room in the crib?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 17:47:59 pm by Stephnaic »

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Re: Baby sleeps through night but day naps are short
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 18:12:48 pm »
when should I start holding him off to start doing 4 hrs between feeds I know the book says by 4 months but when should I start?
Honestly I've awlays been a little confused over this. In one part of the book it says you start in the 4th month which would be when LO turns 3 months as this is entering the 4th month. But then mostly people move to 4hrs *at* 4 months which is entering the 5th month since birth.  As with all aspects of BW though it is about seeing what LO is ready for and changing accordingly to keep things running smoothly.
If LO is less interested in food at the 3hr mark, not wanting to eat or not taking a full feed then this is an indicator to extend time between E regardless of LO being 3 or 4  months.  And on the other hand some LOs do not make it to 4hrly E until they are 6 months old and have some solids between to keep them going. Tracy listed some examples, low birth weight, prem.  My own DS was neither of those but he couldn't go a minute beyond 3hrs without food, probably due to his silent reflux.  I'd let him go over the 3hr if he was asleep but otherwise there was no extending him at all.
And just to show that all LOs are different, some newborns feed every 4hrs rather than waiting until they are 4 months.
Clear? ;)
There are a couple of FAQs to help with the shift if you'd like me to direct you to them?

And also currently he sleeps in our bedroom in his own cot when would be a good time to transition him into his own room in the crib?
This is a personal choice really. The SIDS guidance says to have LO sleeping in their own cot in the same room with you until 6 months so I would go for any time after that.  Individual families make their decisions based on all sorts of reasons so it very much depends on you.  I had my LO in a baby hammock by my bed until 9 months at which point he rolled in it which was the indicator I had to move him immediately for safety.  I moved him to an adjoining room like a walk-through so it was still pretty much the same room but it felt very different to him.  I think moving at any age can be difficult really but often it's done in 3 days and everything settles again.

Glad to hear the routine made sense and you've been able to make some changes :)