FTM and would like some sleep

[ZanesOTmom]

Also, his intake has dropped again. Would it be better to do 3.5h EASY? But now that his A time is 2-2.15, how would it work? He's almost 16lbs and would eat 26-27oz in 24hrs, down from >30. The reason I ask is, he's up to 2 NFS again tonight- woke up with wet sheets at 0330h but won't stop crying after I changed him. Settled after I fed him plus I gave him a dream feed. This is a setback from 1 NF (no dF) although I'm also thinking, it may also be due to not enough calories in the day. When he was down to 1 NF, his intake during the day was much better.

[ZanesOTmom]

Just an update, DS is now wearing a sleepsack and it's working well. He's now sleeping wel at night, down to 1 NF and usually a NW/EW. Problem now is his naps... this is what's been going on the past few days. I stopped WTS in gen weekend and he woke after 30mins still. Restarted again and would WTS starting at 26/27min mark until 50-55min Mark unless he wakes first.

Aug 28th
0330 NF
WU 0700
E 0730h (formula plus solid restarted after stopping for a month. Suggested by pedia to start at 4mos but formula intake dropped)
A 2.12
S 0912 (34mins woke up unable to transition, WTS op1 for 2w now. Started at 26min mark. Shpatted and slept for 8mins. As soon as I leave the room, he wakes. Slept again for 11mins after shpat. The wakes. Slept again for 28m, woke at 1056h)

E 1104h (formula)
A 2.30
S 1327h (slept for 36m then again, kept waking up after 5-7mins until gave up at 1445h)

E 1447h
A 2.04
S 1651h for 34mins

E 1730
Bath, bedtime routine 1845
Top up then crib at 1940. Asleep by 2008h for 6 hours (yay!)

0240h NF then easily goes back to sleep
0545 NW, shpat
0635h babbling in crib, picked up at 0650h

E 0715h (formula plus solid)
A 2.06
S 0856h (37min, shpatted then slept for 13m, shpatted again then slept for 44m)

E 1115h
A 2.27
S 1319h (1h16m!!! Shpatted and slept for 4m. Wakes after I leave room. Shpatted then slept for 20m)

E 1517h
A 2.27
S 1740h for 28m

E 1650h
Bath, bedtime routine at 1900h
Top up then crib by 2000h. Asleep by 2030h for 6.5h(!!!)

0300h NF
EW at 0610, won't go back to sleep. Played with daddy at 0645 when starting to whine. Up by 0657.

E 0715 (formula plus solid)
A 2.27 (weird it's always this long)
S 0924h for 40m then slept again for 7m after shpat; shpat again then slept 48mins

E 1115h
A 2.15
S 1326h for 26mins (didn't get a chance to do WTS; Shpatted, slept for 6mins. Shpatted then slept for 32mins.

Do I just accept the fact that he won't be able to connect sleep cycles and just deal with the short naps because night sleep is good? Is he still UT even though I've been extending A time to almost 2.5h?? Is he OT?? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you

[LaraAndrea]

Just stopping by quickly... I did not get a chance to read through all the hx. Is your LO 5 months now?
How long have you been battling the short nap?

When we were going through the 4 month regression I remember feeling like I had to increase AT every few days.

Current AT 2:30?

[ZanesOTmom]

Hi. Yes he's 5 months today. He's always had short naps. He's only slept 1.5-2h a handful of times in a month. But the fragmented naps is new - less than a week. I thought I needed to extend A time to get longer naps but now I'm wondering if I'm actually overtiring him...

[LaraAndrea]

I can't say definitively if he is being OT. But a UT/OT loop is VERY common at this stage!

But my experience at this stage/age was the feeling of taking 2 steps back. Witch lasted ~2 weeks (felt like years) then we started to see small improvements. But it did come down to AT increase in the end.

How long are you sticking with each AT increase before progressing?

[ZanesOTmom]

Oh boy. I just pushed him to see how long he can last.... I guess I am making him OT by pushing too much too soon aren't I? So from 2.05-2.15, we jumped to 2.30 A time. Also, last night he woke up at 2330h whining (put back to sleep within 5mins) and he hasn't done this in a long time....

Add-on: I looked back and even with 2.15-2.20 A time (i follow cues), he had fragmented naps. But it just became daily the past few days. And it's always been around 30mins and now as short as 25mins. Not sure if these tell you anything...

Thanks so much for responding.

[LaraAndrea]

It is possible you may have pushed quickly, but it is so hard to tell sometimes. How many days have you been doing the 2:30?

Only a few days of consistency in AT will give you an idea.

[ZanesOTmom]

I looked back the past week and I've been playing around 2.10-2.25 AT the past 5 days. Prior to that it was 2-2.15. I don't see a pattern when he gets over an hour nap and when it's only 30mins and when it is less than 30mins. So confusing!!! It does seem though he needs longer AT in the afternoon and evening.

He was awake at 0630h today but left in crib until 0645h. He started complaining at 1.50 AT but we didn't do WD until 2.10. He slept right away but woke up at 30-min mark. I didn't do wts today to see what would happen after doing it for 3 days. Patted him for 10mins and he's been asleep for 36mins now and counting. Fingers crossed!!! I'll take 45min any day!

[LaraAndrea]

Try to stick to same AT for 3 days (AM and PM can be different, but same for a few days) may be easier to find a pattern.

I feel your pain. Right now my LO is dropping 2nd nap, cutting teeth and starting to walk eeek. Sometimes it is very hard to nail down cause and effect

[ZanesOTmom]

I will do that. Thank you so much!
Oh my goodness. I hope you get some rest and some sleep 

[creations]

Hi there - sorry I haven't stopped by for a while, I've been away from BW with a bad back.  Trying to catch up a little now.

I see LaraAndrea has been supporting you wonderfully   Thanks xx

[ZanesOTmom]

Oh no, no worries Creations. I hope you're doing much better!!! So good to see you back. You've been so helpful to a lot of us here.

I really needed a change to our routine and so I've been reading other threads and came across Jessmum suggesting perhaps counting A time from awake time even with EW then longer A time for the rest of the day. It's day 2 of doing so and I'm happy to report that DS's naps are much better. He started responding to WTS again finally! He's been napping for just under 1.5hrs 2 days in a row. Looks like AT is 2-2.10 (starting from the time he wakes, not when we pick him up) and 2.20-2.25 for the rest of the day. EW hasn't changed - still around 0630h. And he still sleeps around 8pm. Total night sleep time is 10-10.5hrs. I guess that's how he really is...

Fingers crossed the past 2 days are not a sham and will continue on. Still hopeful he will be able to transition between naps one day. My backs killing me leaning on the crib to shpat for 30mins every nap 😫

[creations]

That's a great update

I would try the W2S for a few days and then see if he'll go on his own, if not then resettle as best you can and start the W2S again next day, but the idea is to do about 3 days then let him try on his own otherwise you never know if he's at the point he can do it without you.
Good luck!

[ZanesOTmom]

I got a problem. It's been gone until yesterday. He woke up at 0040h for feed, went back to sleep with no issues. Then he was up at 0510, shpatted but only slept til 0600. He's been awake and just kicking away in his crib until he started whining eventually, picked up at 0640. I think maybe I put him to bed too late. 1st nap at 0848h for 40mins with WTS. Then shpat won't work, I had to APOP until he fell asleep on my arms at 1015h, slept for 50mins until 1106h, unable to put back to sleep. He would fuss in crib until picked up which is unusual so I figured he's OT. He was on activity center when not fed formula and solids for A time prior to first nap.
Then E 1109h. We were out for errands for AT. Then activity center while I quickly ate lunch. He was in bed after 2.20 AT. Took a while for him to fall asleep and only napped for 30mins with WTS. Rocked plus shpat and he slept for 11mins. Rock and shpat didn't work so had to APOP and he slept for 41mins. Again, won't go back to sleep.
E 1505h
AT 2.25h (WD as soon as tired cues) with low key activity.
CN 1725h
E 1805h
Bath and bedtime routine started at 1850h
TU 1915h then crib. Took almost an hour for him to fall asleep when usually it's less than1"mins with minimal intervention. Slept from 2022-2316h. Left in crib as he kicked then escalated to whine and crying. Shpatted and rocked, slept from 2323-0011h only!!! Gave him NF then fell asleep right away. He woke up again after 4hrs and I couldn't resettle. So gave him another NF as a desperate move. He fussed in crib and wouldn't sleep. I finally APOPd again as it was already 0525 he slept on and off in my arms until woken up at0705h today.

He took his first nap at 0858h today but woke up after 32min even with WTS starting at 26-min mark. He was wide awake for 15mins until finally slept with shpat but woke again after 8mins. He won't settle so I resorted to APOP again. He's been in my arms asleep for 40+mins now.

My plan today is to put him to bed as soon as I see tired sign, as early as 2h AT. Am I correct to say he's very OT and need to address that even if I need to APOP before we can work on going back to routine again? Please tell me if I'm wrong. I just want to go back to routine again with WTS working, EW and all.

[creations]

I think he is approaching something like 5.5months now is that right?  Could be time for him to extend the A time and drop the CN.  Sometimes nap drops are messy and take a bit of sorting out.
Here's a link to the 3-2 info:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=246541.0
Have a read and see what you think - ring any bells?
During the transition from 3 naps to 2 LO can need longer A times but not able to take an A long enough to move directly to 2 naps and still have a 7pm ish BT. During that phase you might find it better to keep the CN and allow BT to move later (he's already pushing it to 8pm or later), you might also reduce the length of the CN to try to keep a reasonable BT and finally drop the CN but then bring BT much earlier after just 2 naps in the day.

Whilst he might be showing signs of OT it can be caused by the A time being too short.  As pp said 2hr 30 is about right at this point (or longer if moving to 2 naps a bit early).