Author Topic: Solids vs Milk balance for 5m old  (Read 224 times)

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Offline violagal

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Solids vs Milk balance for 5m old
« on: August 08, 2017, 12:05:32 pm »
My DD is 23 weeks and has been weighed this morning at 8kg so is between the 75th-91st percentile.
We started solids at 20 weeks as she was showing all the signs - taking 4 bottles of 300ml formula during the day but the gaps were shrinking from 4 hours to 3.5hrs and then she wanted a topup before bed as well as being able to sit independently and grabbing food off her two brother's plates and successfully getting it in her mouth!
She has taken to solids in a big way and whilst her milk intake has dropped slightly I feel like we are a bit stuck now and not sure what to do. The HV this morning suggested swapping the late morning solids and milk around to give solids first so could do that but she's normally so hungry by 1045/11 that I wonder if she would be frustrated at the mush!
Her brothers were not like this, they only took tiny bits really until 6 months and then I was able to give them cheese, yoghurts, eggs etc straight away but not this little lass...

At the moment we are doing:

WU 6.30-7ish takes about 250ml formula
Breakfast 830ish portion of baby porridge (6tbl formula with 2tbl porridge)
1045/11am 250ml formula
Lunch 1230 pureed veg of some kind - will take a whole portion/pouch around 100g and would probably take more if I offered...
245/3 250ml formula
5 dinner pureed fruit/baby rice - around 100g
630 300ml formula

Naps are a bit all over the place so no day is the same.

Any thoughts?
Thanks!

Offline creations

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Re: Solids vs Milk balance for 5m old
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2017, 18:58:10 pm »
Hi there
I feel like we are a bit stuck now and not sure what to do
What is it you feel stuck with though?
I see the HV has made a suggestion (not one I'd make but nevertheless) but what was it that prompted your HV to make this suggestion?
Is it that LO is still very hungry on what you're giving her or you feel the milk ought to drop more or...something else??

Whilst this might not answer your question (as I am not really sure what it is you are stuck with, sorry) I notice you mention pouches of baby food - if these are shop bought pouches they are usually very high in sugar, even the ones which appear to brand themselves as home made or organic or such (even the savoury sounding ones often have high sugar and high fruit content making them high sugar if that makes sense).  If she is trying to get more maybe question is it the sweetness she is after rather than actual hunger?


Offline violagal

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Re: Solids vs Milk balance for 5m old
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2017, 22:25:40 pm »
Hi thankyou for the reply!
Sorry - the 'stuck' that I'm feeling is that according to the HV her milk intake should not be as high as it is - she said 300ml 4 x a day was too much and she should be taking around 180-200ml per bottle. So the issue I have is that whilst I am giving her as much solids as seems appropriate after her bottle it's not really having the impact on the next bottle that perhaps it should have?
Or actually should I leave well alone and carry on as I am and then introduce dairy at 6 months where perhaps that might make a difference?

Yes I am using pouches when I am out and about but also mush up my own generally taking whatever veg we have for dinner. She even manages to chow down on 2 or 3 breadsticks in one sitting!

I'm interested in why you wouldn't make the suggestion to swap one meal round - do you think she is still too young?

Thank you...

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Re: Solids vs Milk balance for 5m old
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 09:44:39 am »
The size of her bottles does seem big, but I don't think that is necessarily a problem.
Obviously babies are all different sizes and smaller babies are not going to need to eat so much and bigger babies are going to need to eat more - guidance on feeds is going to usually be some mid point but not a once size fits all amount.

You mentioned her weight centile, on the higher end of the scale which is totally normal.  Is her length also on the higher end?  So looking at proportion the HV doesn't seem to have mentioned any problem there?? (such as height being several centile lines lower than the weight cetile line) and head circumference is okay too?
I would suggest that if there *is* a large disparity between weight and length then I'd be asking the GP for a referral to a paedi to have her checked over.
If there *is not* that sort of disparity then she's just a big girl - and I'd guess you and/or your DH are tall/bigger build and she's just growing as expected.

I can see guides on-line for milk intake at 7oz 5 or 6 times per day which is a total of 35-42oz. And it looks like your LO is taking about 40oz. Unless you also have some night feeds which you didn't mention in your post?

Whilst she is still younger than the recommended age for finger foods I see that you feel confident in her ability to take them.  She is also younger than the recommend age for introducing grains such as wheat (bread sticks) but you've obviously considered all the developmental and safety aspects and feel comfortable about her readiness.
With that in mind I wonder if you might consider offering some different foods to increase the fats and proteins in her meals which could help to fill her for longer?  That could help keep the milk intake as it is or drop a little if necessary.
For example eggs are high in good fats and protein, usually recommended at 6 months but some on-line sources say it's fine to give them when ever a baby is ready and keen (4-6 months) and as you are in the UK you can easily obtain lion mark eggs which are free from salmonella (I often think eggs are safe than formula in this respect).
Some advice on allergen risk foods (wheat, eggs, nut butter, cows milk solids, fish) says you must wait until 6 months and other sources say it is more important to wait for LOs readiness to eat solids and then introduce them.  So, you can decide for yourself on each food item, as your LO is obviously one of those babies who was "ready" at 4 months rather than 6 months.

Other foods high in fat/protein are:
fish (check all bones are removed, cook through well, whizz to a paste and serve as dip/mush or spread on toast), fatty fish is going to be higher in good fats obviously, such as salmon or mackerel (I would use fresh not tinned as the salt content in tinned foods can be higher) both are pretty easy to check for bones and offer in flakes as finger food or whizz to double check bones are ground down.
meat (large chunks of meat for finger foods give her a good handle to hold whilst she sucks an gums on the meat).  Or whizz to a purree and make into patties or meat loaf)
beans and lentils can be whizzed into a paste (such as humus or any type of bean paste/mush/spread)
avocado is high in good fats and can be served as mush/guacamole or as finger food
adding oil or butter to foods can increase the fat content

I'm interested in why you wouldn't make the suggestion to swap one meal round - do you think she is still too young?
I don't think I've ever suggested swapping milk and solids around even for a 1 year old.  I see no need to. Yes sometimes a toddler might be refusing breakfast or taking very little and at that point dropping the morning milk could be the answer or switching to solids first with a cup of milk after breakfast or milk with the mid morning snack instead but that's really only for toddlers who need to be taking solids as their primary food. Not for babies whose main food is milk.
Generally I advise sticking with milk at the usual EASY routine times (4hrs which extends naturally a bit longer, say 5hrs) when naps come in the way, LO is a bit older and solids are coming between milks)
milks: 7, 11, 3, 7 (DF or NF)
solids 1hr later: 8, 12, 4/5
Then rather than switch to milk first I go with switching one milk to a solid snack when LO is ready, usually either the 11am or 3pm and then a little later the other one (it does depend on LO but lets say 10-12 months).  This leaves a routine at 12 months (or a little earlier) of approx:
7 milk
8 breakfast
11 snack
12 lunch
3 snack
4/5 dinner
7 milk

I just find this is an easy way to know when to feed LO as it fits with the routine we are used to and LO is used to. it just removes confusion over what time to gives what and the whole milk or solids first thing doesn't even come into it.


Offline violagal

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Re: Solids vs Milk balance for 5m old
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2017, 21:52:12 pm »
Wow thank you for such a detailed reply!

So to answer questions...she is very tall - length is on 91st percentile so she is definitely in proportion and a big girl. Not had head circumference measured since birth but no mention from HV.
My second ds was also very big, ended up over the top of the 99.8th percentile for weight and 98th for length! First DS was very petite and still is - amazing the differences!

She isn't taking any night feeds presume she's ok to carry on taking what is within reasonable limits just split across four bottles. I've just actually checked the NHS website and they suggest 150-200ml per kg so for dd that would be 1200-1600ml a day! So thank you, I'm reassured that her milk intake is actually fine for her size.

We are indeed happy with finger foods at the moment - she can pickup and gum down breadsticks and baby rice cakes but yes think i'll introduce some flaked fish and a few other of your suggestions and then as she is only 3 weeks off 6months gradually introduce the eggs, butter and yoghurt etc.

I feel much more comfortable not swapping the feed so will stick to the 4 milk feeds and solids an hour after. At what age would you see most los drop to 3 milk feeds?

Thank you so much!


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Re: Solids vs Milk balance for 5m old
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 09:36:46 am »
Glad that you're feeling better about her milk intake - it does seem okay to me even if it's on the higher end - and no night feeds is amazing!  She certainly gets it all in during the day to see her through the night!

I know it's a concern about her not being 6 months yet.  I was so fixed on not giving solids until 6 months as per the guides but really my LO was ready from 4.5 months and I spent a month eating in secret so he didn't see me and scream the place down (although he wasn't sitting up but he really really wanted the food!).  I eventually gave in at 5.5 months and didn't limit the food types although I thought I could hold off on wheat for another 2 months it turned out impossible (when my mother handed him garlic bread).
Just go at your own pace and trust your observations and instinct :)
I do think you'll have an easier time of it once she gets some more protein which will be more satisfying for her.  She's a big girl and obviously growing well :)