Author Topic: Help! At my wits end!  (Read 788 times)

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Offline maybell245

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Help! At my wits end!
« on: August 12, 2017, 14:56:45 pm »
Hi,
I had posted on the Night Wakings board and now it seems to be an all out general sleep issue.

Here WAS our routine.

WU and E at 7:00 (unless she is already awake) - BF 6.5-7 oz.
A 2 hours
S 9-11 (or 9-10:30)
E 11:00 6.5-7 oz.
A 2 hours
S 1-3 (occasionally 1-2:40)
E 3:00 6.5-7 oz.
A 2 hours
S 35 or 40 minutes between 5 and 6, most commonly 5:15-5:50
A/E Activity until about 6:15 and then rice cereal (which is new last week)
E 6:30 6.5-7 oz.
A bath, prepare for bed
E top off - usually she eats 2 oz. 7:15
S sleep routine starts right after and she is usually asleep between 7:30-8:00
E 11:00 DF, she usually only takes 2.5-3 oz.

She started waking between 3 am and 6 am sometime a few weeks ago after week of sleeping through until at least 6ish.  It happens when she tries to get her hand out of her swaddle.  If she succeeds, she keeps hitting herself in the face in between trying to find her fingers and gets mad/upset and cries....cries a lot.  If she doesn't succeed, she gets mad and keeps trying even if it's hours until she does.

Then, she started trying to roll back to belly in her sleep.  Thus, we can't swaddle her now because if she rolls onto her belly and she is swaddled she can't breath! 

So if we swaddle she now wakes every hour over night trying to get out or gets out and cries either way.

If we leave 1 ore 2 arms out, she doesn't sleep at all...maybe 20 minutes. 

Last night, she woke at 10:30, 2, 3, and 4:15.  We ended up feeding her at after the 4:15 WU since shush-patting, PUPD and a pacifier didn't work and it still took until 5:40 to get her to sleep.  Then, I just spent 9:20-10:50 shush-patting and doing PUPD during her nap because she startled awake at 9:20 (slept 20 minutes) and won't go back down.  I have held her arm/arms down too and the second I let go even if it was after 20+ minutes she hits herself in the face.

I am at a loss as to what to do.  I don't want to swaddle and chance her suffocating!  But she seems to need swaddled to sleep!

Things were going so well!  I just taught our new Nanny the routine for when I go back to work in 2 weeks and now this!  Please help!

Offline deb

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 16:33:20 pm »
How old is she?

Offline maybell245

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 16:39:27 pm »
19 weeks

Offline deb

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 17:00:01 pm »
Hmm... a couple thoughts.

Could be a developmental leap happening if she's recently started rolling over. Make sure she has lots of time to practice that skill while she's awake; 9 times out of 10, once a new skill like that has been mastered the incidence decreases as they don't feel the need to practice it so compulsively. :)

She may have some teeth starting to shift; this can make it hard for LO's to fall asleep or to get through sleep cycles.

Might be time to increase physical activity (not A time, but lots of tummy time); that wears them out for sure! :) Oooh, can you take her swimming? My kids both slept like babies, pun intended, when they'd been in the water for a while.

If she's waking in the night, might be due to tummy discomfort. While one of my DD's was OK w/rice, DD1 did NOT do well with it; we cycled thru a few different grains before we found one that worked (I forget if it was oatmeal or millet - this WAS 15 years ago! LOL). In retrospect I wouldn't have started w/grains at all but gone to veggies & meats & avocado, maybe yogurt in a little while (DD2 thrived on avocado). Maybe back off on the rice for a day or 2, see if it makes a difference?

Offline maybell245

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 17:22:54 pm »
I think it's teeth - she has been drooling SO MUCH!  I also think that's why she fights to get her arm out so she can chew on her fingers, but then she can't sleep because she hits herself or jolts.

Do you think I should stop swaddling? 

What about feeding her?  Should she have a night feed?

Last night, she woke at 3:00, she got her arm out.  I waited and she escalated to a cry (after fussing for about 10 minutes).  I went in, reswaddled, shush-patted and she was back to sleep by 3:30 and so was I.  She woke again at 6 and my DH said shush-pat didn't work so he gave her the pacifier and then she slept until 7 when we WU to feed.

Swaddled for am nap, she woke at 40 min. and I shush-patted for 20 and she slept another 45.  She is having pm nap now.

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 17:56:45 pm »
Hi, echoing what deb said about rice.  Rice in any form made my DS vomit (he eats about 1 teaspoon now at 6 years old and can keep it down, there is some natural instinct in him to know not to eat more even though he has no true allergic reaction).  Whilst rice has been thought of as a good food for babies for a long time modern guidance is more towards holding off on grains until 6 months and then possibly offering grains which are not rice as it is also very low in nutritional value and in some cases can fill baby up but not give the calories they'd get from milk, they can be too full for their milk and this can lead to being hungry in the night even when they weren't before.  Rather than helping to see them through the night it reduces their calorie intake and makes them more hungry.
There are also growth spurts though so LOs can need a night feed for several days even when previously sleeping through until the GS passes.

I would just cut out the rice and see what happens as it seems it is a recent introduction and could be the cause of the disturbance.

With regards the swaddling - honestly I would drop it, you have said your LO is rolling and you fear suffocation.  I know you said she's waking often without the swaddle but this is going to pass - there are many phases of development, teething, and all sorts of things which throw sleep of here and there throughout the early years and it's horrible for you sleep to be disturbed before you head out to do a days work but every phase of bad sleep will pass - and will pass more quickly with you or Daddy responding they way you are doing.

Have you tried pain meds before BT?  I used to give one at BT and save a dose for the middle of the night, sometimes even doing a kind of dream meds where I gave it to him at my BT (I had to half wake and tell mine what to do other people seem to be able to do it when baby is asleep just like a DF). Through the worst days/nights I alternated between paracetamol and ibuprofen to keep on top of the pain - mine really suffered with teething.

hugs I know it is exhausting.


Offline maybell245

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 00:52:07 am »
Hi again,
It's been several weeks since I posted.  Things have been better.  First we tried Tylenol for a few nights to see if it was teeth, that didn't seem to make any different at all.  Then we stopped rice cereal for a whole week and she went back to 1 waking if any after a few days of that.  I talked to her Dr. and she said to wait at least a week and try again, but just offer it once a day for a few more weeks before 2 to let her digestive system mature a bit more.

So now, she rolls back to front and front to back.  She doesn't do it every day, but days she does she does it all day so we are trying to stop swaddling.  One arm out at a time has still resulted in 0 sleep at naps and bed and then she ends up OT and the only thing that will calm her down is swaddling!  I am at such a loss as to what to do to help her.  So we went to both arms out because if she rolled, she couldn't roll back with 1 arm.  Will it just take awhile and a lot of OT for her to learn to sleep without it?  We shush-pat and that calms her, but the moment we stop her arms start going.  The last 2 nights she doesn't cry as much when we stop shush-patting, she just kind of "hangs out" in her bed moving her arms around, eating her hand and not sleeping until she eventually has been doing that for too long and cries.

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 09:22:28 am »
Then we stopped rice cereal for a whole week and she went back to 1 waking if any after a few days of that
That's great!  Honestly I see no need to even reintroduce the rice, there are so many other foods available.  My DS is 6yo now and still doesn't eat rice.  He is not a fussy or picky eater in any way, there are very few foods he doesn't like or wouldn't try but rice is a no no. If he is in public, a restaurant or at school, he will eat a little a spoonful or so to be polite but otherwise it's just not a food that he does well with. As a result I rarely cook rice at home but if we are having Chinese or Indian food for example I'll get him noodles, chapati, naan bread etc instead. He can still fully join in the meal.


Offline maybell245

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 13:57:03 pm »
Last 2 nights, she slept all night with 1 arm out.  She EW at 6, but I can handle that, it's the 4:30 EW that was bad since I get up at 5:15.

Now the issue is naps, she will sleep for 30 to 40  minutes with 1 arm out and then she wakes up.  She doesn't cry, she just isn't asleep.  Shushing tends not to work, she just babbles over it.  Any suggestions or thoughts on naps?

Not sure if I should wait until naps improve before leaving out both arms or not.

Also, about when do LO's drop the catnap?  I can't remember what I read.

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 22:46:22 pm »
She's pushing 6 months if I did the math right? What's her EASY like these days? How long an A time before first attempt at a nap?

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2017, 00:44:55 am »
She just turned 5 months.

WU and E at 7:00 (unless she is already awake) - BF 6.5-7 oz.  Also eat 1 serving rice cereal at 8:20 (we backed off for awhile, but 1 time a day seems fine, it's 2 that was messing with her.)
A 2 15 minutes hours
S 9:15-11 (or 9:15-10:30)
E 11:00 6.5-7 oz.
A 2 hours
S 1-3 (occasionally 1-2:40)
E 3:00 6.5-7 oz.
A 2 hours
S 35 or 40 minutes between 5 and 6, most commonly 5:15-5:50
A/E Activity until about 6:15
E 6:30 6.5-7 oz.
A bath, prepare for bed
E top off - usually she eats 2 oz. 7:15
S sleep routine starts right after and she is usually asleep between 7:30-8:00
E 11:00 DF, she usually only takes 3-4 oz.

She is typically quite fussy between 4 and 5, so I don't now if she would make it to bedtime now without the catnap.

Her naps have been erratic the past few days.  Over the 3-day weekend her naps were:
Saturday: 1 hour, then shush-pat and I got 30 more.  2nd nap was the same
Sunday: 1 hour, then shush-pat and I got 30 more.  2nd nap was 2 hours solid.
Monday: same as Sunday

Then for the sitter Tuesday she took 2 40 minute naps and the sitter couldn't get her back down.  Today (Wednesday) she slept for 30 minutes both times, but Grandma got her back down with shush-pat to get 1 hour 30 minutes both times.

I can't tell if she needs a routine change or if it's the 1 arm out from swaddling, caregiver changes or what?!

She has slept ALL night with no wakings since we started the 1 arm out.

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Re: Help! At my wits end!
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2017, 02:20:54 am »
Been a while since I had one that young but my first impulse would be to stretch that first A time longer, maybe to 9:30 if she'll have it without getting too OT.

The rest may shift from there.