Author Topic: 33 weeks and cat napping - transition 3-2 messed night up!  (Read 1544 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ItalianmumUK

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4
  • Location: London
33 weeks and cat napping - transition 3-2 messed night up!
« on: August 17, 2017, 07:29:27 am »
Hello everyone,

This is my first post. I hope you will be able to help me as I'm really at my wits end.

My baby is 33 weeks and he has been napping 3 times a day but for very short time (A 2.5h, S 30 min max!). He has never been a 'long napper', he was usually doing 45 min-1 hour max but still...only in the last 2 weeks he started napping for 30 min each time...! I must say his nights had improved a lot since he was sleeping only 30 min naps.

To address the issue and after reading some threads of this forum I decided yesterday to transition him to A 3h. It went well in the sense that he was able to stay awake for that long but his naps remained short. I was just in room with him so I would pick him up and let him sleep on me until he slept for 1-1.5h. It went well and had 2 naps.

But the night got completely messed up! He was only waking up once before for a 30min feed but last night we woke up 7-8 times!! dont know what  to do now. I'm going to continue today with A 3h and see what happens tonight but I am so exhausted! He has never been a good night sleeper so the fact that in the last month he woke up only once a night, it was gold to me! But yesterday night out me down...

I should mention that he is rocked to being very drowsy and then in his cot.

I look forward to hearing what you think and suggestions...thank you

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 33 weeks and cat napping - transition 3-2 messed night up!
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 08:11:26 am »
Hello and welcome to BW forums

First, any change in routine is going to take several days to settle in (or longer) so try not to make too much judgement on success (or lack of) after just one day.
I think you have done the right thing to increase his A time, 3hrs is about what a 6 month old has and at 8 months many will need longer than 3hrs for one or more of the A times.  it looks like LO had been sleeping very short 30 min naps due to being UT (under tired).
Once A times start to get beyond 3hr and when LOs are around 8 months we often see one long nap and one shorter nap - it could be that as your LO was used to very short naps and then suddenly got lots of day sleep (2 long naps) he just wasn't tired enough for a proper night sleep.

it would probably help very much if you sleep trained so that you were able to put him down drowsy (sound like you do do this) and so that he doesn't extend sleep in your arms but in his cot instead.  This could also help with his learning to resettle himself in the night.

my guess is that those few weeks when he only woke once in the night could have been down to having so little day sleep that he just crashed out to catch up at night rather than having a settled routine with a balance of day and night sleep - it must have been lovely for you to finally have a better night yourself but it was probably never going to last like that.

For now you might continue with the 3hr A time for a little while and see how it goes although my guess is that you will need to increase at least one of the A times more than this - see if you can resettle in the cot rather than letting him sleep in your arms.  here is a link to the W2S (wake to sleep) method, please look at naps option1 which describes how to see baby through the sleep transition in the cot (you do pick up if he fully wakes and cries hard).  you can do a gentle rock in the cot my putting a firm hand on him if you prefer that to patting:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0

Could you also record your EAS times whilst you are implementing the changed routine so that we can see what's happening?

Hope this helps


Offline ItalianmumUK

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4
  • Location: London
Re: 33 weeks and cat napping - transition 3-2 messed night up!
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2017, 08:38:08 am »
Hello,

Thank you so much for the prompt reply, very much appreciated. You were very clear and make a lot of sense. He is down for his first nap now, he woke up at 6:10 and went down at 9:04 although he was already quite grumpy after 2.5 h...I will record timings and post it.

I tried w2s last week every day but it never worked. I tried at 20 min. Today I'm trying at 15 min to see what happens. [Could you share with me the link to the length of the different sleep cycle's phases? I saw it once on here but I can't find it again.]

At 30 min on the dot, he immediately wakes up, yawns, stretches, opens his eyes and starts crying. There is no time for sweet calm rolling in bed...he's like a robot! That's when I pick him up and start rocking him. When I tried to pat him he would push me away and cry more...I also tried putting him back down after a bit of rocking but he would start frantically moving again and wake up...

I have been tying to train him when he was younger with a sleeping consultant but failed miserably after 8 weeks of training...nothing would work on him...hence why I just rock him now and within few minutes he's down. Having said that, I always put him down quite drowsy and he's able to drift himself off to sleep. And he is able to do transition through sleep cycles at night...he used to do it during the day too until two weeks ago...


Thank you again for helping out on this.


Offline ItalianmumUK

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4
  • Location: London
Re: 33 weeks and cat napping - transition 3-2 messed night up!
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 09:09:12 am »
W2S didn't work even at 15 minutes...he woke up at 35min on the dot.

I tried again to hold my hands on him and pat but again didn't work. Rocked him and made him sleep on me for a bit worked but then as soon as I approached the cot he would wake up again. I just gave in now...

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 33 weeks and cat napping - transition 3-2 messed night up!
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 18:09:41 pm »
Perhaps this is the link you wanted?  Sleep facts:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64515.0
I don't think it covers the 30 min naps you were seeing - with your LO these in my opinion are kind of like me being lulled into nodding off if I am on a long journey or laying in hot sun - I'm not the least bit tired but I can still be lulled into sleep.  With some other LOs who have 30 min naps it can be caused by OT (over tiredness) but that would be clear from a significantly longer than appropriate A time which is not the case with your LO at all.

I tried w2s last week every day but it never worked. I tried at 20 min.
OK.  Trying W2S last week on a 2hr 30 A time I would not expect there to be any success.  This A time is far too short and the BW sleep training methods are only going to work in conjunction with an appropriate routine.  Even a routine of 3hrs A time may well be too short however as you have increased the A by 30 mins we'd generally suggest sticking to it for a few days and seeing what happens with the routine before adding any more on, and then looking at where to add it and how much.
Did you read the W2S link I posted?  From what you've said, trying at 20 mins, trying at 15 mins, it sounds to me like you are trying to disturb his sleep - this is not the method I am suggesting.  Maybe have another look at my post and the link.

he's like a robot! That's when I pick him up and start rocking him. When I tried to pat him he would push me away and cry more...I also tried putting him back down after a bit of rocking but he would start frantically moving again and wake up...
This is why you need good A times and sleep training.  For as long as you continue to  pick up and let him sleep in your arms to extend the nap that is all you are reinforcing.  Certainly if the W2S method is not successful (I feel it will be more successful than you think) and he fully wakes and cries hard then yes pick up and calm him in arms, BUT then you need to put him down before he is asleep.  Yes he will fuss, of course he will, he has been taught to sleep in your arms so this is what he expects, he can be very annoyed with any change to that so the idea is not to expect him to just go right back to sleep but to keep calming him and putting him down.  You can also use a firm hand to rock in the cot if he doesn't like patting - do this when you put him back down so he feels your presence and support.  This is a process of teaching and learning, it's not all going to be resolved in one day.

Being able to transition from one sleep cycle to the next at night is not the same as transitioning in the day. Different developments of learning and different habits are formed.  You said he used to nap 45 min to 1hr so I suspect he was not transitioning regularly at all.

I'm sorry that you didn't have a good experience with your sleep consultant.  I can only say I have seen very many LOs successfully sleep trained via these forums, from the information in the FAQs and the BW books and from the support that is offered here by the community.  I have personally seen a huge number of posters successfully sleep train their LOs here - if you are prepared to make changes it really can happen.


Offline ItalianmumUK

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4
  • Location: London
Re: 33 weeks and cat napping - transition 3-2 messed night up!
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 14:50:31 pm »
Hello,

I would like to follow up on my original post and share my experience and how I cracked down the problem my baby was having with his short naps.

Basically, he was overtired for his first nap of the day and would carry that overtiredness over to the following nap and so on.

I was putting him down at 2.5h A time but that was too long for him to be awake for. As soon as I put him down at 2 hours, his nap went from 30 minutes to 1.5 hours!!! I can't believe it took me 4 weeks of 'nap hell' to understand this!!

So now he goes down for his first nap after 2 hours and all other naps are after 3 hours and he has been having a total of 3 naps a day (1.5h + 40 min + 45 min). He wakes up happy and rested and I'm a happy mummy again.

One more thing I noticed, if he has only 2 naps during the day, he wakes up 5-6 times during the night. If he has 3 naps he sleeps through.

I hope my experience will help other mums. Books can help but let's remember that babies are individuals and we can't assume that because 'all babies sleep this much for this long, etc...' then ours should do the exact same!

Good luck everyone x

Offline ginger428

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 16
  • Posts: 912
  • Location:
Re: 33 weeks and cat napping - transition 3-2 messed night up!
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2017, 20:40:29 pm »
Books can help but let's remember that babies are individuals and we can't assume that because 'all babies sleep this much for this long, etc...' then ours should do the exact same!


Yes! This was so true for us... once I threw the BW book across the room. Granted I was in a very low place and struggling with a lot, but nothing worked.  Until months later when I found the forum and people suggested different things, adjusting, reminding me that things change so quickly, etc... and I saw DS with his unique preferences, habits, and needs. <3

So glad to hear about your success.  Creations is on a break, but would be thrilled to hear about the progress when she returns. xo