2 month old...where to start?!

[MomofCandE]

Hi there!

My 2 month old dd has been on a rough easy since about a week old. Around 4-5 weeks of age she went from naps of 1-3 hrs to most naps being cat naps in crib, swing or stroller. Longer naps can happen if Im wearing her. It was also taking forever to get her down for naps. I have a 5 year old dd as well who has really struggled with all the changes of new baby 😞. Given baby was born on last day of school before summer break it's been a double whammy of changes for the 5 year old. In order to keep her happy, entertained etc we have been on the go almost every day. So although we do eat activity sleep things have got wonky and with school going back in a few days I would like to start fresh with a new routine and start trying to work on naps. Baby sleeps 7:30-7/8ish. Her wake up time has been consistently 830 but for the past 5 days it's creeping earlier and earlier which has me worried as this will now effect first nap as I have to do school drop off. Soo where is a good place to start as far as a time? Should I try to extend naps? Just need some guidance here. We had been doing around 1hr 15 a time. We need to stay home this week best we can and start tackling this 😊

[MomofCandE]

I should add that she had really started being restless from 430am onwards. She has been a noisy sleeper and often here her moving around since we brought her home during the early morning hours but it seems to be getting worse. We are moving her out of our room as she is just so loud that we find we aren't getting the sleep we should be since she is sleeping through. Is this part of being over tired? She is a super happy and calm easy baby so far.

[creations]

Hello and welcome to Bw forums

I see in your other post on naps that she used to sleep long naps until about 5 wks old - I would guess that the change in napping wasn't so much to do with having "wrong" A times but rather that she came out of her new born sleepy phase and just got harder to get to sleep.  Great nights sleeping through though - you'll be the envy of everyone!

With the wake up getting earlier now, this could just be because it seems earlier due to her previously doing particularly long nights, you might have become used to the 13hrs and now that she's doing more like 12 it can seem like something is going off track but can equally be explained by her just getting a bit older and settling into a more reasonable night length. 12hrs is very good.

Clearly you will need to fit naps around school drop off.  Are you planning stroller/car/sling naps on the school run and then A time either side or are you hoping for her to stay awake during the school run and nap once home?  i would suggest making a rough plan of what you want/need to happen and then work out your times around that. If you need WU to be later you might need to move BT...so think about WU, suitable A time and planned nap time and jot it all down.  This is something that you will be able to plan much better than I could as you know your circumstances.

I would also suggest having a think about which naps you;d like to work on - would it be all or would you choose one per day to try to extend?  If you are going to pram/car nap during the school run you can allow this one to be a short CN and work on nap 2 being a longer nap for instance - there is no strict rule about exactly what you "have to do" but rather how to make this the best fit possible for everyone concerned.  I would suggest starting to sleep train for at least one nap per day in the cot at home and for a long nap.

With regards to A times, I would base your plan for return to school around what LO is able to do for A time, if you haven't been recording your EASY times then begin with 2 days of observation as per the book, and look at what is most likely to be suitable. Then use that as a starting point to jot down where nap 1 is, work back to find out when you need morning WU, and work forward to set out a rough plan (always changeable with LOs though) with one of the naps marked for sleep training.

What do you think?

[MomofCandE]

Thanks for the reply. It makes sense what your saying about how to go about making up a rough draft routine. I can walk or drive to school. Drop off is 830 and pick up is 315. If I drive I need to leave 10 minutes before those times. If walking I need about 20 minutes. Originally when baby was sleeping till 830 i was going to wake her at 750 feed and change her and drive. With the earlier wake ups she will be needing nap around drop off time. So maybe I walk when weather is good and cat nap in stroller. Then try to get a bigger nap 2.

[MomofCandE]

Sorry. One last thing...how do I go about moving bed time later?

[creations]

Often we can shift the whole day on by 30 or 60 mins (as needed) by delaying the E and then the nap by 15 mins, the whole day runs 15 mins later. Day 2 another 15 mins and so on...it's how people tackle clock changes, here is a link:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=44509.0
You'll see in there there is another option of squeezing in an additional CN on one day which moves BT later - then remember that the next day everything is to happen later and the whole routine has moved.  I think as your LO is so young I would go for an additional CN, an A time and then BT.

Once you've started your routine (or if you have more questions) you can post here what is happening and i'll have a look. Obviously there is no point in my posting a sample routine for you because you have restrictions which only you are aware of (school drop off and mode of transport etc) but if I was to work out a routine it would be the way I described above. Start with what you cannot move and work back and forward from there.  You might need to put in a CN (rather than long nap) around school pick up for example but that's okay, LO will get used to the routine whatever it is so long as you are consistent.

[MomofCandE]

Last week I started focusing on getting a routine and naps happening at home rather than jn the carrier, stroller or car. I focused on the morning nap for the first few days and by friday all 3 naps were in the crib. I don't know if we are now in the 4 month sleep regression? She's 3 months now but I heard it can come early. Both yesterday and the day before she's waking at the 30 min mark and needs the paci put in sometjmes I am in and out the whole nap 😞. She doesn't take a paci at night but seems to need it at nap time. I don't know where to start now? Do I get rid of the paci? I tried yesterday to get rid of it and just rock her. I have been rocking her to sleep at naps to try to get our routine going and removing the stroller/carrier. She is sleeping 7-7/7:30. The odd 630 wake up. My older dd has school so I drop her off at 830 and pick her up at 305 I can't nap her before 845 at the earliest due to dropping the other one off. I drive as it's quicker than the walk so she won't nod off in stroller. I haven been using 1.5hr A time.

[MomofCandE]

I should add that on Sunday for the second nap I tried the w2s method of slighting stirring her. She slept at 1155 did w2s at 20 min mark and then woke at 50 mins for soother and went back down till 1:45.
Also last week we had a couple times where she woke and started sucking on her hands and went right back down without me going in which I thought was awesome. It seems she can't do that or doesn't want to anymore.

[creations]

Hi
It's great you got all those naps in the cot

A few questions:
How long have you been using the 1.5hr A time?
Does she appear tried when you take her for nap?
Any resistance or crying?
How long does it take to get her to sleep and are you rocking her in arms or in the cot when she nods off for the nap?

You could try the W2S option 1 method where you sooth her in the cot before/as she wakes and continue until the next sleep cycle starts, that might be more successful for you than the version where you disturb. It's more suitable for younger babies to see them right through the transition time so if she's waking at 30 min I'd go in at 25 min and begin patting or rocking in the cot with a firm hand and keep going until she is fully asleep again (or deep sleep).

Some of this could just be she is learning rather than the 4 month regression.

[MomofCandE]

I started being really strict with the 1.5 a time a week ago. Some she seems tired and goes down with ease other times it's a fight. Yesterday she was chatting and messing around while trying to get her down. Sometimes it takes 5 minutes other times 20 minutes. If I give the soother she is out way quicker. I rock in the chair. If she has her soother I can rock a bit and put her down drowsy but awake. The soother has been extending naps but has become a constant in and out of her room ordeal. I tried no soother for her second nap today. She slept 45 minutes and wouldn't extend. If I had of given the soother she would have gone back down

Is there a link for option 1?

Should I ditch the soother?

[creations]

Yes, here's the W2S link, look at naps
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0

Have you tried putting her down awake in the cot (after a good wind down) and then either patting or using a firm hand to rock her in the cot?  This could be the next step towards self soothing for her.
It sounds like she might do better with a slightly longer A time, as she is so young maybe try just 5 to 10 mins longer. I know you can't be exact with this as it can take 5 or 20 mins to get her asleep but starting the WD just ever so slightly later might help - let's see.

I can't advise on the soother really. Tracy said not to use a soother as a prop, only during WD for sleep and then remove before sleep (and not use throughout sleep) but if you've been using it for sleep and LO is dependent on it then the SIDS guidance is not to remove a soother cold turkey before 6 months old.  SIDS research also shows it is safer to use on than to not use one.
It is up to you, I would read up on it and make an informed decision.

[MomofCandE]

Thanks for the link. How many days would i do option 1 for? I'm having hard time
Knowing when she will exactly wake. Last night she went to bed 630 as she was so tired and slept till 640. So far today has been
W 640
E 730
S 838-915 soother back in and firm hand on for 5-10 minutes
W 1028
E 1040
S 1155-1221 soother back in but couldn't get back into sleep out of crib at 1238

She doesn't take the soother at night and can self soothe during night wake/early wakes so for some reason she wants it at naps. I have tried giving at wind down then pulling out but when she wakes in the nap I can't resettle her without it but today I couldn't with it either. I realize first a was quite long but she couldn't go down earlier due to school drop for older dd

[creations]

Hmm.. I wonder if she is more OT if she is sometimes getting 2hr A times due to the school run? What do you think? Rather than increasing the A time by 5 or 10 mins you might need to reduce instead.  Although the first nap turned out well with the resettle the second nap looks like it could be an OT nap possibly a knock on effect of the first A time rather than the A time directly preceding the nap - if that makes sense?

The W2S usually  you do for 3 days,  hold off on day 4 and observe. If LO transitions alone into the next sleep cycle then you can leave her to it, if not then resettle and begin another round of 3 days W2S, again hold off day 4.
If you can't do all naps across the day with W2S pick one and keep at that one each day instead (try not to chop and change as you are trying to create a habit of longer napping).

[MomofCandE]

Ok thanks. Yes I also thought it was ot from first long a time as she seemed tired the whole a time after that first nap. Should add she also isn't seeming hungry every 3 hrs. I bf twice a day and ff the others. The first feed of the morning she is now not nursing well and is off and on looking at me, trying to chat etc. I don't know if I should try to cut out the df or what to do with that as well. I'm going to try to fit in a cat nap later to get to normal bt today

[creations]

I wouldn't cut any feeds yet, she's so young.
Perhaps try feeding in a boring dimly lit room instead, no distractions?
Try feeding maybe 30 min after WU instead of directly after WU, mine always needed time before he ate and then ate properly.