Author Topic: Routine tweak? 4 weeks in and still little improvement four our 9month old.  (Read 698 times)

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Offline Lilac14

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Hi, I have been trying to teach my baby to sleep for 4 weeks. He is 9 months old now. Before starting he started the night in his bed but then coslept  and fed all night after 10pm. We have now stopped cosleeping and he stays in his bed all night. He goes to bed awake and we pat him or stand Next to him until he falls asleep (he screams if we pick him up). He still wakes every 2 hours. He also still cries for at least 20 minutes every night and every wake up he cries for at least 15 minutes somtimes much longer. I feed him after 12pm but he then wakes at 2 and 4 and 5! Each time crying to get back to sleep.  I bring him to bed at 5 and he  feeds and dozes until 6am. I'm getting really dosheartened with how much he cries still. I used this technique with my daughter and she stoped crying after 5 nights! I know he is overtired as his naps are awful. Our routine is
6am wake and BF
8am - breakfast
9am - nap
9.45 awake and BF
12 lunch
1pm - nap
1.45 - wake up
5am dinner
6pm bedtime.

I'm not sure wether we should night wean completely as I feel like feeding him at one wake up but not the others might confuse him. I'm at a loss as to what to do. Thanks in advance.

Offline LaraAndrea

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A couple of thoughts...

With only 90 min of daytime sleep your little guy is possibly OT for bedtime. OT can cause both NW and EW. So even though nights are your may concern, you may have to start with naps to improve nights.

Your LO may need an increase in AT. 3h is the lower end of avg for his age. He may benefit for an AT push. This may also help with his naps.

How many milk feeds do you do in a day? I saw 2 in your routine but you mentioned an early morning feed as well? Does he received any BM or formula from cup/bottle during day? Do you BF before BT?

Offline Lilac14

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Thanks so much for the reply. I will increase AT. How long should I keep him up for? We breastfeed throughout the day and before bed (before he gets his pj's on). It's really hard to keep him up if he has a rubbish Mir big nap as he is so tired! It's a catch 22! I also find getting Him down for his afternoon nap really hard as he is so overtired!

Offline Lilac14

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Also, if he wakes at 4pm after his afternoon nap what time should bedtime be ifnit was only a 30 minute nap?  He randomly had a great nap this morning for 1.5 hours after increasing his AT but had a rubbish afternoon nap so don't know what time to put him to bed.

Offline LaraAndrea

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As far a night weaning a 9 month old, it is hard to say because all babies are different but many BF babies can go without Night feeds by this age. You will likely have to increase daytime intake.

I found as I began to space out BF during the day (how many h between BF now?) My LO started to take more milk per feed. I did find it was a slowish process b/c you want them to take the lead as per BF guidelines. You may want to drop one night feed at a time, give a few days for him to compensate. Night feeds can become a prop for a baby. You are right that it may confuse him, but not to yours or his benefit in the long term. Can your partner tend to some of the night wakes?? I found if my husband went in my LO did not expect food and would settle.

I found that by the time my LO was 9-10 months the flexible routine was less effective. So even if my LO had a short nap, I only made small adjustments to other naps or BT. It did lead to a few rough days/nights (but you have that anyways) and I found baby would adjust.

The avg awake time is 3-4h, some like even more. And it is not necessarily the same per awake period. I found my  LO liked far above avg awake time in AM and much shorter in afternoon and before bed. Some  babies are the opposite. So I would increase by 15-20 min consistently for a few days... See how it goes then possibly push again.

I hope I addressed everything, sometimes I get on a train of thought and lose where I started :)

Offline Lilac14

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Thanks so much. We are having lots of success st night. Just one wake up but still lots and lots of crying at bedtime. We have night weaned this week and my husband is going in to settle and he goes back to sleep quite easily. We are still having 5am wake ups and bad naps. First nap is now 1 hour but the afternoon nap is awful. If I try to put him down he will cry for so long I just can't do it so for that nap I've been having to feed to sleep which is not ideal as he wakes after 30 minutes at around 1.30pm. That leaves 5 hours until bedtime and a very overtired baby. Wondering if I should push first nap to 4 hours AT but after 3.5 he is so tired. The thing I'm finding the hardest is the fact he still cries for every put down. We have found leaving the room for a few minutes when he is grumbling is helpful as he gets so angry when we are stood next to the cot but is this really bad? I know you shouldn't leave them to cry alone. We just can't get him down for afternoon nap without hysterics 😢

Offline LaraAndrea

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What does his EASY routine look like now?

Offline Lilac14

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Wake at 5am - bring to my bed and BF and snooze until 6am
8am breakfast
9.30 - breastfeed and nap (not fed to sleep)
11 - up
12 - lunch
2.30 - nap for 30 mins
5.30 -dinner
6.30 bed (he is so ready for bed I hunk as he is very tired but he can cry for 30 minutes stil!)

Offline LaraAndrea

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My LO started fighting the 2nd nap and bed time around 9 months. I came to learn in our case it was the early stages of the 2-1 nap transition. I can't say for sure if that is what is happening. But that is how it presented to us.

Either way I do think your next play should be to continue to push morning AT. Generally a nap under 90 mins is considered a UT nap and since your nights have improved it likely that your little guy can handle more in AM.

It is hard b/c babies come to show learned or habitual sleep cues and they can throw us off.

With the short UT AM nap baby becomes OT and you end up in this frustrating loop.

Offline Lilac14

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Hmm, this is interesting. He only had a 3.5 AW this morning and was showing signs of tiredness but has work after 45 minutes so I'm guessing he was UT. Should I push it to 4 hours? And if he wakes after 1.5hours do I wait 4 hours until PM nap? Sorry for all the questions 🙈 Should I also try and push bedtime? His afternoon nap is never more than 45 minutes butbif he has 1.5 hours in the morning is that ok?

Offline LaraAndrea

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It probably was an UT nap, but babies can be habitual to a fault. Sometimes it can take a few days of a change to see results. If you are too aggressive you may end up with OT baby right from get go, which is no fun.

As far as 2nd AT it doesn't necessarily need to be as long and if you have a good 90+min am nap you will likely be ok with nap under 60 min.

If found that BT did a bit of flip flopping at this stage. When I first pushed AM AT and my day shifted so did BT, then when she started fighting/refusing 2nd nap, it became earlier again. We are just about at our desired 7pm BT :)

Offline Lilac14

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Thanks for continuing to reply. We are having very mixed results. The past two mornings Iv kept him up for 4 hours before am nap and yesterday he slept for 1h50m but then no pm nap and today he slept for 1h only and have 30 min pm nap and is currently screaming trying to get to sleep and I can't work out what I'm doing wrong. He is overtired I guess. After such crap naps yesterday he was up for 2.5 hours in the night and ineventually had to bring him into bed at 4.30. He is fighting sleep so hard. I just don't know where to go from here.ilmkeep trying this longer morning AT. He also won't sleep unless in his cot so I feel like we are hostages to the house and my poor toddler is going stir crazy. We are all miserable with it now. Not sure how much longer to try this for. Over 6  weeks now!

Offline LaraAndrea

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Unfortunately you may need to hold at that AT for couple more days to see true results. Anything over 4h would be considered above avg AT for that age.... That being said, my LO needed above avg AT in the AM. But since you had good nap the other day and you only just made the change I would try for a couple more days.

An OT baby at night is just the worst. Could he be teething too? When I had such strong nights crying I would notice a new tooth popping through the next day or so.

Around that age (for me at least) I had to push LO 2nd nap much later if she had a good first nap. Then we either had to push BT back slightly or cut that 2nd nap short, just enough so she could make it to BT.

It is awful to be "stuck" at home, my LO only slept in crib as well. I only have the one child so I can only imagine what you are going through.

Hugs