Need help/advice with nap day schedule

[angel_uk]

Hello. I'm sorry if this is similar to other members posting but I am in a need of some help with our daytime schedule and naps.
.lo is 7 months on the 13th. So far we've been going with the flow. Waking whenever breasfeedig on demand and putting down for naps when we saw tired signs. Usually danish every day. However he's always grumpy and tired as not sleeping enough.
Naps are 3.first 2 got short to under 30 mins now and last one is 2 h but only cos I go to bed with him and settle him back when he wakes up.  I am hoping to get him on some kind of schedule that would incorporate school runs( 8.30till9 and 3.15 till 4).  I dont know if I need to keep him awake for 2 h between naps to lengthen them. He struggles often going longer than 1h30 as he has such short naps.  Please advise what could work and is with trying out. He wakes anytime between 6 to 7 and is in bed for 6pm. Doesn't sleep through but falls asleep on his own with dummy. I will be very grateful  for help.

[LaraAndrea]

Hello
I wouldn't worry about starting new posts everybody has a slightly different story and it helps when you have your own thread.

2 things that I can see...

Awake time would be the main one. The avg AT for a 7month old is 2:45-3:13. Although not all babies fit the mold it is likely the culprit for short UT naps.  I found after 6 months of age that tired cues alone we're not good enough signs for sleep. Baby's cues can change and they start showing "learned" cues. (Acting tired out of habit).

Unfortunately short UT naps can lead to OT and create a frustrating loop.

I would start by trying to increase one of your AT first (10-15 min increments every 3-5 days). If LO shows cues, try to distract them with new activity, song etc.

2nd would be...
After 6 months you can often drop to 2 naps. This may not happen right away as you would need your naps and AT to lengthen before you could drop 3rd cat nap.

As far as tailoring your routine to fit your day, I would have to see your routine laid out in EASY format.

[angel_uk]

Thank you for reply. Thats what I've been reading for past couple of days about aw. We always went by tired cues.  And its been more less like this since school broke up
6to7am awake
Straight away breastfeed
8ish solids
9 to 9.30 bed asleep between 30 to 40 mins
11ish breastfeed
11.30 nap another 30 mins
12 till 1 solids
1ish breastfeed
Between 1 to 2 bed for 2 h but I would go with him so he was settled back
Awake between 3 to 4 depending what time went down
Breastfeed on awake
5.30 bath
6 in bed

[LaraAndrea]

You said he doesn't STTN, does he take a night feed ?(not unusual at this age still), is he up numerous times? Does he settle on own? With help?

If his nights are reasonably good (looks like you get 12+h) then I would recommend working on the first AT intially as you should not be battling OT so much. Is the 9-930 nap time based off his 7  am wakes, or does he do longer AT with the EW? With your current routine and extending AT your little guy should be on awake time for that 830-9:00 timing that you desire. Does he ever nod off during the school run?

[angel_uk]

No he doesn't sleep through. He  falls asleep on his own with dummy. He wakes for feeds and once nappy change but it various.  Earliest wake can be 8.30pm but mostly is 9.30pm. Then I get another two wakes one for feed and one forfeed plus nappy change.usually  around 3 h ish apart. He can wake after 5am to 6am for dummy and if its 6am he  often goes  for top up in my bed till we get up at around 6.30am, sometimes( but rarely) he goes past 7. He gets breastfed at each wake and straight back to sleep.
I usually put him for or first  nap anytime  from 9 am depending on signs. But he is dhoejng digns before like atv8.30.Now with school run he would fall asleep sometimes on way back but wake up as we get in. Sometimes he wouldn't then I put him straight down as we get in. Thats the morning one.

[angel_uk]

I'm just wondering as it doesn't bother me if he has 3 or more naps  if maybe I could start his 3rd longest nap at something like 1.30 and let him sleep with me next to him  as its only way he sleeps Longer till before 3.then do school run and get him down for another short one as we r back at 4 as I know he won't last till 6 bed time.

Or try the second nap at 12 instead if 11.30 and hope for the best he sleeps at least 1h 30 and then third nap would happen on the school run but very likely it'll be shirr with all kids screaming about when out of school.

I am really lost as what to do as I dont want nights to get any worse.

This is what happened today as he woke at 6 am earlier than nornal.  :
Day routine  Thursday 7th
6 am wake
7 bf
8.25 bed
8.45 asleep
9.11 awake
9.30 solids
10.45 milk
10.53 bed
11.04 asleep
11.33 wake/ settle back by me
11.40 asleep
11.44 awake  as clearly settling didnt work
12.30 lunch
13.50 bed
13.55 asleep

15.12 dog barkwoke him up so settled him back
15.16 back 2 sleep
15.25 resettle once again as was fighting it. Went to sleep.
16.23 Awake and boob
6 bath and boob
6.30 bed
6.40 asleep

I moved his bedtine later in hope of him wqking later. Usually he is in bed at 6 and asleep by 6.15

[angel_uk]

So this morning he woke up at 5.I left him as he was babbling and hoped hell go back to sleep but at 5.30 he started crying so I got up and gave him dummy he only managed around 30 mins. So I got up and fed him and put him back in cot. He was crying so I soothed him at 6.08 he was asleep but at 6.30 my husband stirring woke him up so he ended up in my bed asleep till 7.08.
I was hoping to avoid taking to my bed as people say they get used to it?  Is that right at this age?  I just wanted him to sleep till7 so he would last till 9 for his nap.

[angel_uk]

And thats is he just woke at 9.45 crying. So keeping him for 2.15 made absolutely no difference yet.  He had 22 mins and now will be ot for his next nap if I keep him another 2.15 or 2.30. What time should I put him down please?


.

[angel_uk]

25 mins later he's showing me signs of being tired and is ehingy

[LaraAndrea]

*hugs* naps can be the most frustrating things!!

I will try my best with some of your most recent posts...

At night: does he take a full feed each time? Or has the BF to put back down become a bit if a habit?  Do you do a dreamfeed?

As far as keeping the third nap. It is a good tool for now to avoid OT at BT.

As for pushing BT I know it sounds counterintuitive, but an OT baby at BT is more likely to wake early so I would stick with your previous BT for now.

You are at the hardest most frustrating part of nap adjustment right now. Try to hang in there. It does take sometimes 5 days of a consistent adjustment to see changes and you will likely find yourself in an OT loop. With your little guy crying at 25-30 min you are right to assume OT.

What do you do to try and resettle? It may seem and be futile for a while but eventually you will find that an OT baby is easier to resettle than an UT baby.

Your question about bringing your baby to sleep with you... Can a baby get used to that at this stage? Prop?... Yes... But sometimes we have to do what we have to do to help our babies and our selves. I and most of the mammas on this board will admit to APOP at some point. The key is to not make a habit of it. Meaning try not to use that prop at every nap, maybe not even the same nap each day.

Babies need time to adjust to changes. If you need to put your little guy down a bit earlier for 2nd nap (if first one is short) that is ok. Just focus on that first nap for now. When you see improvements there you can start working on the next one.

Hang in there!!

[angel_uk]

Thank you  so much for your reply. I went full in today. And boy was it hard. He was crancky all day long. Did I do bad by going all in?  I just didn't know what to do and if I'm going to make things  worse.  So this is what it looked like from his first early waking
5awake
5.33 asleep
6.awake and boob
6.04 back in cot
6.10 a sleep with assist but not fully so end up crying at 6.30 in my bed till 7.08 when we got up

9.05 feed
9.13 bed
9.22 asleep but had a cry falling asleep first
9.45 awake
9.55 solids
11.45 boob
11.52 bed a sleep within minute
12.33 woke. Settled back by me.
12.43 again
12.46asleep
13.13 awake
13.20 asleep
13.30 awake
16.00 boob
17.solids
18.40 bath
18.50 boob
19.00 bed
19.08 asleep
 So when I settle him back I put him back to hisnpossition he falls asleep which is his side and stroke his back and give him dummy
He is almost using dummy on his own now but when he wakes he dont want to find it.

When he feeds at night yes he always takes both sides and is very quick. About 7 minutes. He doesn't fall asleep  on boob ever. He rather get off and fall asleep on the feeding pillow  but no as soon as he stops drinking I pick him up and lie him back down. He turns and goes to sleep.
I don't put lights on or anything.
I dont do dream feed as I always wait till he wakes as he can be inconsistent.
I am expecting  wakes tonight since I completely changed his day and bed time. I am worried that I've done wrong too much too soon. As i always used to put him down every time he was tired.
I didn't even do second nap in bed with him just stayed in the room and resettle him back in cot.

[LaraAndrea]

I don't think going all in is wrong. Sometimes a large shake up is necessary and pulling off a bandage all at once may be more preferred method.
Just be consistent with the changes you made today for a few days otherwise you will never know what works and what does not.

[angel_uk]

I will do thank you so much. I'm tired myself now lol. So just gonna get myself of to bed. Thank you once again for your help and keep fingers crossed for us. Hope tomorrow is a but easier.

[becj86]

Hi, just popping on to lend an extra pair of eyes.

LaraAndrea has given wonderful advice and support. I just wanted to offer another perspective from years hanging around on these boards and having seen babies with A times a long way short of average for their age and how long it takes to get them on the right track. If you were to consider that on average you'll add 15min to your baby's A time per week (this accounts for setbacks, days when you just can't push, etc.) and that between 4 and 6 months of age, a baby's A time goes up by 15min every 2 weeks or so, you've a long, long time to get back on track. You know the song about the frog that goes up two jumps but slips back down one - that's what ends up happening when people add A time gently when they're a long way off appropriate A times and things can get very messy and it can take months to get on the right track. I've supported a few mums here through jumping straight to average A times then tweaking from there. It is a hard and very intensive couple of weeks but things tend to end up much cleaner much sooner.  If that's something you'd like to try, we're happy to help with that. It is a hard few days initially but often the self-settling issues tend to resolve at least partially just because baby is tired enough to take a proper nap and that resolves the undercurrent of chronic OT that builds up from so many short naps.

[angel_uk]

Hello and thank you for your reply and time.
Thats what I was thinking myself when getting it all through my head.  It would take ages and  who knows what outcome would've been.
So the night went really great.  He woke at 10.40 pm after going down at 7 had a 15 minute wake as I couldn't get a letdown( I was proper stressed)  but then straight to sleep till 3.47.I gave him another feed and didn't change nappy as that just really wakes him. He went back to sleep from near 4 till he woke at 6.35.my husband had to get up to the poo so not sure if that woke him up or he just did it on his own.
He had a great sleep and all by himself. It was me that slept crap as I was just expecting a bad night. Typical that lol.
Anyways I've just put him down for his first nap and he's falling asleep now its 9.10am.  We'll  see how long he can manage on  his own if its going to be short I will try resettle and go from there. Once again thank you for all your input and time taken to help me out.  🙂🙂xx