Author Topic: Help please! I'm feeling lost.  (Read 1173 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« on: September 15, 2017, 14:21:45 pm »
My daughter will be 7 months next week. She is a happy child and oh so busy. We have been doing EASY and PU/PD for 2 weeks. After the initial few days of misery she  was doing pretty great. Now she is fighting all naps and even bedtime. Her morning nap and bedtime were always her easiest times to settle. Last night I was up with her for 2 hours trying to get her to settle back to sleep (doing PU/PD 10-12. This morning it took 30 minutes of her standing in the crib laughing and then 30 minutes of pu/pd for her to drift off to sleep. Sometimes I think when she sees me it's too distracting. Other times she won't settle without my hand on her tummy.

Background: she can sit, stand, crawl, cruise, and she's practicing standing without holding on (last 2 are new this week). She also goes to my husbands parents house twice a week while I work. They are not very strict with the nap routine (sometimes her eyes are shut before they put her in the crib), but they Follow EASY very well.

Her current routine is a 4 hour EASY. We have tried stretching out the A time- it always appears that when I start the nap wind-down she's ready to sleep and then when she hits the crib it's like she drank espresso.

Up 6:30
Nap 8:30 (may not fall asleep until 9:30)
Eat 10:30 (or 11 if she wakes up from nap later)
Activity
Nap 12:30/1
Eat 2:30/3
Fights cat nap unless I'm driving her home
Bed between 6-7

I realize that 6 is too early for bed because she started getting up at 4:00. She just seems exhausted when she doesn't cat nap. Also- I am working with my in laws to carryover our same routine for consistency (we are lucky to have them).

Basically I need help because I'm exhausted and its not working. I know it's my fault not my daughters so please help. This is causing so much stress in my household. I'm doing everything I can think of. I want to set my sweet baby up to succeed! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me!

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 14:23:25 pm »
I forgot to mention she nurses twice a night and isn't eating solids well yet. This past week she has been up 3x every night and if I get her back down without nursing she keeps waking up every 30 minutes until I nurse her that third time.

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 14:55:31 pm »
Also- naps are about 60-90 minutes. Occasionally 45 but ever since we started EASY they have lengthened.

Offline LaraAndrea

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Toronto
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 15:13:18 pm »
I think you were on the right track when you thought about increasing AT.

Her AT seams a bit below Avg for her age (~2:45-3:15), so it makes sense to me that she may fight her naps etc. As she is probably a bit UT. It is also not unusual after 6 months for baby to drop the cat nap and be down to 2 long (1-2h naps) "ideally" :)

Generally a 45- 60 min nap is sign of UT as well.

I would recommend increasing AT

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 17:22:32 pm »
I will start with that. Any other suggestions?

Offline LaraAndrea

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Toronto
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 17:33:54 pm »
I would start there. It can take few days for a change to show improvement, so don't necessarily expect immediate results.
I also found that sleep cues alone become less reliable after 6 months, which is why I think so many if us start to get UT naps. We follow the same cues (they become learned/routine) and get behind on age appropriate AT. :(

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 18:03:08 pm »
Thank you! I don't need immediate results. I want to do what's best for my sweet girl... and eventually get some sleep :-) Would you start with an awake time of 3 hours and see how she adjusts or stay more conservative? Knowing that she will start out fighting me should I start the wind down early?

Offline LaraAndrea

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Toronto
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 19:16:22 pm »
Using the 630 wake as an example, I might try putting down at 9:00 initially (2.5h), if she is still fighting the nap, she may be telling you she is ready for the 3h AT already.

My LO was super active too and she liked above avg AT especially in the morning.

As for NW and night feeding, it is within normal to still have 2 night feeds with a breastfed baby at this age (sometimes more if growth spurt). Do you do a dreamfeed?

Something that worked for us at that stage when baby is wanting to be nursed back to sleep but really is not hungry, I would send my husband in to do the resettling. She would settle much easier for him as she didn't expect boob ;)

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 18:38:33 pm »
Update: So you are definitely right that my daughter was under tired for her naps. So we have started doing 2.5 hours before her morning and afternoon naps.  She still will not take a catnap or a third nap- but she will be increasingly needing to be held in the evening. We have pushed back her bedtime to 6:30/7 which has helped with the 4am wake-up time for 2 hours, but she is now waking up every 2 hours all night long- insisting on eating. I'm worried that I'm setting us up for a new routine of eating all night. I have tried the dream feed many times- since she was a small baby. It doesn't buy us any more time.  From our experience she will still wake up 2+ times to eat.  Maybe this means its more habitual?

I also noticed that my daughter looks for my hand on her tummy or she looks to touch me while she settles down in the crib- is this okay? I don't need to stand there while she actually falls asleep.  For the most part I can leave the room when she is getting Herself to sleep- but during the settling phase she looks to me. I believe she does the same with my mother in law and husband.

This is what her schedule has looked like for a few days. She has had dramatically increased feedings the past 3 days- I'm not sure if its a growth spurt or the increased wake times. I'm less inclined to think growth spurt with the night waking because she has been doing this on and off for a couple months.  It might also be that she is working on standing without holding on? I NEED SLEEP, haha.

wake up 6:30 (nurse)
8:00 (nurse)
Nap 9:00-10:15/10:30
Eat 10:30
Eat 12:00
Nap 1:00/1:30- for 45 min- 60 min
Eat 2:30
Eat 5:00
Eat 6:15
Bed 6:45/7

It seems like a long stretch at night. Can you help? I'm not sure if a more structured schedule that is clock based would be better? And the feeding- we are working on introducing solids. She is still not having more than a bite or two and we aren't pushing it- just giving her opportunities to try it.

Offline LaraAndrea

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Toronto
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 23:47:50 pm »
She still will not take a catnap or a third nap- but she will be increasingly needing to be held in the evening

This is likely the 3-2 nap transition. It is not unusual for babies this age to only take 2 naps. But of course transitions can take time for babies to adjust to. It can be so frustrating, they don't want to take the 3rd nap but they get OT without it. With the increasing of AT and improving naps the routine will morph into a 2 nap routine that your baby will be better with.

but she is now waking up every 2 hours all night long- insisting on eating. I'm worried that I'm setting us up for a new routine of eating all night.

It is possible that the night feeding has or will become habitual. Breastfeeding can be so challenging. We are told to breastfeed on demand, but babies know how to manipulate their mamas and will often nurse for comfort and habit. It is not unusual to have a night feed or 2 at that age and some babies can go without night feeds around that time. After I dropped the dream feed (at 8 months) my LO would go from 7PM-6AM with out feed.

How many milk feeds do you have during the daytime?

The night feeds... does she take a full feed? Or are they quick feeds?

Assuming some of the night feeds are habitual/comfort I would recommend working on one feed at a time. Give yourself an hour(s) minimum for first feed. It looks like she does some clustering in the eve, maybe say 3 or 4 h, so decide not to feed 2h after you PD for bed. I would send hubby in to do the settling so she does not expect milk. The next time she wakes you will probably have to feed her, as with the other night feeds initially. Do this consistently for a few days, this will give her the opportunity to compensate during the day if she needs/wants more milk.

When/if this works for you, you should then maybe look at the 3rd wake up (you fed for the 2nd) and replicate same process giving your little one a few days to compensate during the day.


It might also be that she is working on standing without holding on?

Don't underestimate the sleep disturbances that new skills create. It may not be the full cause of any sleep issue but it sure can contribute!! Any time my LO was learning a new skill I became a "skill practising tyrant" during the day... OK well I am not that mean, but I put extra time during AT helping my little girl practise those skills. For one it tires her out good for naps and she is less inclined to practise in her crib, as she had lots of practise during the day.

Teeth are also a huge pain in the A$% at this stage too. Babies either want to nurse more or less during teething eeeek!! If it is not one thing it is something else.

I'm not sure if a more structured schedule that is clock based would be better?

I would jump to a rigid schedule just yet (although the older they get the more comfortable they may get with a bit more structure).

I think you are on the right track with increasing the AT. There is still room to push AT to reach the AVG AT for her age. Your first nap isn't too bad for now (anything below 90 min is usually considered UT). Your 2nd nap is shorter, so you may want to push that AT a bit to try and lengthen that nap. But overtime you will likely have to push both AM and PM AT. They will not necessarily be the same. Some babies like longer AM AT and others like longer AT in PM.

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 16:54:29 pm »
Thank you so much for all of the advice. We have been working to stretch the awake time between naps to closer to 3 hours. We had a couple days and a couple nights of great sleep! Two days of naps longer then 45 minutes and two nights of waking at 12 and 4 only (and getting up for the day at 6:15/6:30). We have then had two days of poor night sleep and poor naps precipitated by a day where she woke up for he day at 5:15 and could not settle into sleep again. This went into her needing 3 naps (40 minutes, 60 minutes, 40 minutes). Then waking 4 times last night (fed 3 times) and so far taking 2 30 minute naps today (the second nap was an accident in the car). Any suggestions on helping the back slide please?

Offline LaraAndrea

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Toronto
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2017, 21:40:41 pm »
Often when adjusting routine/dropping naps especially with pushing AT baby can accumulate OT and the effects/results if that OT don't show up right away.

An EW like 515 is often a sign of OT. It doesn't necessarily mean you are on the wrong track, just baby adjusting. If it were to continue this way then adjustments may need to be made. But if you need to add 3rd short cat nap (sometimes only 10-20 min  is enough) or early BT a few days to counter OT that is ok.

Unplanned car/stroller sleeping can really throw things off. I used to hate taking car rides alone with my LO near to nap time. I used to have to make this awful sound that my LO hated to keep her awake. I am sure if other drivers could hear they would think I was nuts!!

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 17:54:12 pm »
So my daughter took a 35 and a 30 minute nap today yesterday it qas35 mkinutes and 1.5 hours. She is doing about 2:50-3 hour awake time and waking up 3-4 times a night (still more than the 2 she was doing to nurse). Should I push the awake time even more? She yawns and pulls her ears typically around 1.5 hours into our awake time. She is waking up happy but yawning shortly after getting up. Yesterday's Easy
Wake up 6:45
Nap 9:25-10:05
Nap 1:05- 2:35
Bed 6:45
Up/fed 10:30
Up/fed 2:30
Up (changed/topped off) 4:00
Up for the day 6:30

Today so far:
Up 6:30
Nap 9:40- 10:15
Nap 1:10-1:40
 
I'm really not sure what I'm doing wrong. At one point I felt like this was working but now I feel like her sleep is worse then when I started this. I know it must be me but I don't know how to fix this.

Offline LaraAndrea

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Toronto
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 21:32:17 pm »
Does she respond to any resettling techniques?

30-35 min naps sound OT to me. It really seems like she is accumulating OT. (Which can happen with routine changes) I would not push AT for now.

Either reduce to 2:45 or stick where you are at and try and resettle/extend naps.

When my LO would wake OT.... If she would intermittently put her head down/close eyes (between fussing/crying) I knew I had hope to extend nap, not necessarily that day but soon she would nap longer.

Offline MelanieD

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Location:
Re: Help please! I'm feeling lost.
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 22:14:43 pm »
I have done up/pd only once ssuvcessfully for a nap. The other times it will last up to 40 minutes. I've tried placing my hand on her chest, and I'm not proud to say I've even tried feeding or laying with her out of pure exhaustion. For us the problem is she will stand after I settle her down. She flips right onto her tummy and pops up. I have tried leaving the room but Income back after she complains for a bit out of fear of negative sleep associations from CIO. Before bed I've tried sitting in a chair in her room also talking calmly to her. For the most part she'll either complain or play and then cry and Oncan lay her down and she'll go to sleep. Typically before bed or naps she'll do at least 15-30 minutes of standing in tinge crib and winding herself down before I can settle her with a hand on her. Is this part of the problem? I'm really open to any advice and will try it. I'm firmly opposed to having her cry it out and I'm (quite dramatically) envisioning this being my routine for the next several months. It's become where I get anxious if she wakes up prematurely from a nap because I know the kind of night that is setting us up for. My daughter is not a problem to be solved- I know this. I just don't feel like I'm guiding her very well and it hurts my heart to know that I'm not setting her up to succeed. I'm exhausted and frustrated.