4 months eat and sleep regression?

[Ilijansmum]

Hello! I have a question regarding breastfeeding at 4 months. My LO is quite a big baby and has been on a 3.5h easy since he was 2.5 months. He would sometimes even go 4h after the 1st or 2nd nap. He started to feed 2 a night at 2 months and only once at 3, between 2 and 3 am (we dropped the DF because it made him wake up more often). But recently he has been eating less during the day, more often at app.3h and waking up to eat 2 times at night again. I'm not sure if the reason why I cant make him eat more is because he's too distracted and interested in the world around him (I know he's been going through the 4th leap) or because my milk supply is just not enough. Pumping doesnt seem to help - I dont get almost anything, and he wont suckle if the breasts are empty just to stimulate. And I can tell he is hungry at night because he feeds 20-30 min.and drains both breasts both times. I tried supplementing with formula as top up but I wouldnt like to continue doing that and besides, it doesnt seem to help much. I also thought about introducing solids, since he shows all the signs from the BW book, but I'm afraid he's too young. Is it possible that he's going through a growth spurt? It has been going on for a week. What do I do? Thank you!

[becj86]

Is it possible that he's going through a growth spurt? It has been going on for a week.

Yes, there's a big one at 4 months Supplementing with formula might make it longer too - your body is not getting the message that it needs to make more milk if you're giving him milk some other way. What's happening is absolutely normal. Your supply hasn't dropped necessarily, his needs are higher and he's feeding more to stimulate more production so you're both doing your jobs perfectly, its just difficult when things have been going to well.

What do I do?

Drink lots of water yourself
Rest in the afternoon as evening is your lowest supply time
Breast compressions when LO is frustrated with not getting much milk
Sometimes the stimulation of hand expressing helps more than a pump if you're not getting much - perhaps give that a go.

WRT solids - they're lower in calories than milk, so its not ideal if he's really hungry. Recommendations differ between 4-6 months depending on the country, etc. but its worth making sure he can sit unsupported and has some interest. Initially, LO won't eat much in the way of solids anyway.

[Ilijansmum]

Thank you so much for your quick reply! Last night he woke up 3 times to feed (10, 1.20 and 4.10). I feel we're back to when he was a month old. And  he was obviously hungry since he fed for more than 20 min each time, despite the huge amount of formula he had during the day as top up. So today I definitely wont give him any formula, just dont know how to make him breastfeed at regular 3.5-4h intervals during the day! Yesterday afternoon he hardly ate for more than a few minutes per breast and I tried everything, including feeding him in a dark room with no distractions right after he woke up. This morning it was the same - when he woke up he only fed for 3 min! Then he was hungry and fed for 30 min.right before his nap. He only slept for 1h, not 2 as he usually does, woke up screaming and the only way I could calm himwas to put him on the breast again. So our EASY for the day is completely ruined, again Should I just feed him when he's hungry and hope we'll return to a good routine once the growth spurt and leap are over?

[becj86]

just dont know how to make him breastfeed at regular 3.5-4h intervals during the day!

Don't! He's hungry and he's stimulating supply increase so you can try: feed when he wakes and an hour or so after so he's still going 3hr between feeds but getting topups and stimulating supply. You can just feed on demand if you need to.

Definitely read up on breast compressions for the afternoon and evening, the do help especially when LO is used to more milk coming out.

[*Ali*]

Current breastfeeding advice is to feed in demand as often as baby wants day and night. Definitely don't try to hold out 3.5 or 4hrs if he is signalling for a feed between those times. Most EBF babies will need more frequent feeds until solids are established after 6mo.

[Ilijansmum]

Thank you for your advice. I now try to feed him as soon as he starts to wake up after his naps and its a bit better, he eats a bit more and goes 3.5h between feeds in the morning and 3h in the afternoon. My milk supply seems to be improving as well or the growth spurt is over We have dirty diapers more often, which probably means that he has enough food during the day. But he keeps on waking during the night to feed as well, every 3 hours and I dont know how to stop it, it seems to have become a bad bad habit! He was sleeping 7-7 with one feed at 2-3am. If he woke up he would either resettle or need only a little intervention from me, like patting him on the bottom a couple of minutes. Now he won't settle unless I feed him, he starts crying, then screaming, and won't take the paci. We haven't had a stretch longer than 3h for a week, sometimes he wakes up every 40 minutes. I'm so tired and I feel that all the progress we've made in the past 3 months is gone Is this still a feeding issue or should I post this in the sleeping section?

[becj86]

Give it a few more days - sometimes it takes a while for LO to drop the NFs on their own but it usually happens without you having to do too much.

[*Ali*]

How does he go to sleep for naps?

[Ilijansmum]

He started having 3 naps at 2.5 months, 2x2h and a 40 min catnap. And he would be down in 5-10 min. Last few days he started fussing, it takes 20-30 min for him to fall asleep and naps became shorter. At first I thought he was waking up bc he was hungry but with all the signs I read about and I think he's showing, I'm actually wondering whether it's time to transition to 2 naps? He did the 4-3 transition earlier and showed almost the same signs, so it might be logical...

[becj86]

You may not need to go down to 2 naps but increasing the A times is probably a good idea. If you do it gradually rather than jumping from 2hr to 3hr, it will be easier for all concerned. Would you please post your EAS?

[Ilijansmum]

This is what we had until a week ago:
7 WU and E until 7.30
9 S until 10.40 or 11 (I would take him to his room at app.8h50 and it didn't take more than 10 min.to fall asleep)
11 E
13 S until 14.20
14.30 E
16.20 S until 17
Between 17h30 and 18 E - we usually struggle with this feed, he won't breastfeed, at least not much so I give him a bottle of EBM before bed.
BT between 19 and 19.30
He would wake 1-2 times during the night to feed, depending on how much he would eat during the day. Lately he has been eating less and I thought that was the reason why his naps became shorter, that he needed to eat every 3h again. Yesterday he had a total of 2h naps - fought each one but slept better during the night than he had in weeks. But still woke up at 6.15 and wouldn't go back to sleep (2nd time in 3 days). So this morning I decided to pay more attention to his cues and put him for his nap at 8.30. He seemed to be ok during the entire 2h15 A time, but still fussed and cried for 20 min.before falling asleep at 8h50. I hope he doesnt wake up hungry since he fed for only 5 min.at 6h40 Since he's not likely to hold 4h before feeds, do you think I will need to adjust feeding times as well? Thank you!

[Ilijansmum]

 He did wake up after 40 min, I couldnt extend (which never happened for his morning nap) and fed for only 5 min again

[becj86]

If he's feeding for 5 minutes and is then happy, that's ok - babies get really efficient at eating and 5 mins can be sufficient at this age. If he's hungry very shortly after, then there's perhaps a reason to be concerned about that but if he's lasting til the next feed, its fine.

Sounds like he might be a bit UT for that first nap if you're having long time to settle and now a 40min nap. Increase that A time by 10-15min and see how you go.