Author Topic: 13 weeks, what is his A time??  (Read 2690 times)

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Offline Ciuci

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13 weeks, what is his A time??
« on: September 25, 2017, 14:32:23 pm »
I've posted before, unfortunately our naps situation hasn't improved. DS2 is 13 weeks and I have no clue what his A times are. He screams for anything between 20-50 min while I hold tight his arms from flapping, eventually he falls asleep and sleeps 30 min, wakes up crying. I'd say he's OT, I tried putting him down anyhing between 45 min and 2 hrs, tried following cues, but he still falls asleep very difficult and most times he wakes up 2-3 min after falling asleep and cries another 5-10 min before falling asleep exhausted again.

Today for example:
WU & E 7:45
S started at 9:03, he screamed until 10:09 when he fell asleep for 3 min, then after 20 more min of screaming I gave up

E 10:30
S started at 11:30, screamed until 12:00 when he slept 27 min

E 12:30
S started at 13:20, screamed until 14:00, slept 30 min

E 14:45
S started at 15:35, fell asleep at 16:10, slept 4 min, woke up crying and is still crying and fussing (16:24 now).

He sleeps in his own bed in our bedroom, we have a consistebt wind down routine: go upstairs, sing a particular song, put down blinds, "read" a book, and put in bed with white noise. But sometimes we have to mess him up when tending to DD1 eg car rides or buggy rides, he hates and fusses and we give pacifier to make him stop fussing.

I tried pacifier for sleeps, he doesn't take it easily (gag reaction) and then I rnd up being a slave for the pacifier, putting it bacck in every 3 min when he wakes up during his fitful 30 min sleep. He still goes down hard because he keeps gagging on the paci or dropping it and in the end sleeps worse than without. In the car I drive while keeping with one hand the paci in his mouth or replugging it hundreds of times (no exaggeration), stroller the same.

Any tips on figuring out his A time or enabling him to fall asleep easier? 1h of crying for 3 min sleep is really rock bottom :(
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 14:35:02 pm by Ciuci »

Offline becj86

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 20:23:24 pm »
Hi, sorry you're both having such a rough time.

How long has this been happening? Sounds like he's very unhappy lying flat! How does he sleep at night?

Either way I think a visit to a doctor to make sure there's nothing physically wrong is essential. He could have an ear infection or reflux just to name 2.

To answer your question, at this age, 1.5hr is the typical A time and its worth starting there. Do you swaddle? Might be worth considering that as likely he may not like being held down for and hour either.

Have you tried a different paci? One that causes gagging is possibly too big for his mouth. I'd hate to have something in my mouth that induces gagging as I'm sure does LO.

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2017, 05:48:06 am »
Hi, thanks for the reply!
It's been going on for the past approx 3 weeks, since I decided I cannot continue to carry him in a sling for all his 4-6 naps. Because of DD1 he got used to sleeping only in the sling, and if at first he could sleep even 3h there, it got progressively worse and worse, to the point where he could only sleep if I would walk with him OUTSIDE, and then he would always wake up just 30 min later. I cannot carry and walk around 6 kg of a baby all day long, he needs to sleep in his bed.

He has no reflux and no other physical problems. He's been to the doc since, and he is just fine. He has no problem lying flat on his activity mat or even in his bed looking at the carousel on top, and even straight after eating, so I can rule out reflux easily.

I used to swaddle, but when he cries before falling asleep he becomes so hysterical, he fights to break the swaddle and I end up holding his hands tight anyway, so I left the swaddle out. It didn't help with the jolts, either, he still wakes up fully and starts crying, no matter if I swaddle or keep my hand firmly on his arms.

We have 3 different pacifiers from 3 different producers, with different shapes. The gag reaction is the same and it takes a while before he accepts it, then spits it out and then starts fussing that it's gone. And repeat from the start, with no exaggeration even 50 times before he falls asleep in the car or stroller.

At night he used to sleep well, he started connecting first 4-5 hrsand then 2,5-3 hrs, meaning he would go down at 8:00pm (falling asleep at the breast), then would wake up roughly 2:00 am and 5:00 am and be up at 8:00 am for the day. Each time he would wake up, I would BF and he'd fall back asleep within 15-20 min, or he would fall back asleep on his own in his crib later.

Since he's sleeping so bad during the day, he started sleeping bad during the night, too. It takes him approx 1,5-2h to fall asleep (falls asleep at breast, I put him in his crib, he wakes up instantly.or within 5 min, we start from the top), is fast asleep finally at around 8:00 pm and then wakes up every max 2,5 h: usually 11:00 pm, 2:00 am, 3:30 am at which point I put him back to sleep on his belly and he sleeps like that from approx 4/4:30 - 8:00 am. (He's next to me and we have a monitor).

I know average A time is 1:30, that means I should start wind down at around 1:10 from when he wakes up, to allow to fall asleep by 1:30, right? I've tried starting at 1:10, 1:00, even 0:55, on the other end at 1:20 or 1:30, I tried starting after 1st yawn or after 3rd yawn, I tried waiting until he rubbed his eyes or starting when he was just staring into space... The problem is, we still have MININUM 30 min of hysterical crying before falling exhausted asleep, no matter when I start. I can't seem to find his "sweet spot!" It happened probably 2 times in the last 2 weeks that we did the pre-nap ritual and he fell quietly asleep within 5 min. I tried to replicate the conditions later, didn't work.

I'm out of ideas. And of patience...

Offline becj86

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2017, 08:30:49 am »
Could be worth dropping the ritual and just doing something simple like walk in at 1:28 A time, swaddle, PD in bed.

Sounds like he's possibly associating the bed as a bad place now - perhaps try sleeping him swaddled on the living room floor or something so he's not getting as upset...

He will be really overtired just from not sleeping well for weeks on end - stick with 1.5hr A by the clock, do away with the WD thing since its not working (doesn't work for every baby, often spirited ones love or hate it, sounds like he hates it).

I presume he's definitely not hungry?
I wonder about gas - how often is he feeding? When he's very upset, does he look for the breast? Is this upset usually starting approx. 1hr after a feed? Is he burping well?

What I find when a LO is so OT as this is that its easiest to take the training in steps -  get the sleeping happening in a reasonable routine (however you have to get LO to sleep), then sort out the independent sleep thing when the body is more rested and more used to sleeping properly.

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2017, 10:56:55 am »
He doesn't have a negative association with the bed - in the mornings he plays happily alone there while I shower. I can rule out hunger, too - he does the same thing whether he last ate an hour or 15 min ago. If I take him at the breast for sleeping, I become the pacifier - the moment I take it out (and he's asleep), he wakes up within 3 min and searches for it again.

I can rule out gas as well. He was quite gassy/colicky in the beginning, but now it cannot be that he's playing happily on his activity mat or being calm, and the moment he goes in bed for sleeping all mother of gas is upon him ;)

I will try no ritual, even if I find that even more confusing, one moment he's playing happily on the mat and the next I plop him in bed.

It's like he's afraid of falling asleep or hates it...

Today so far:

WU & E 8:10
S he started giving signs at 8:55 already. At 9:00 I started, by 9:30 he was still screaming, I left him with my MIL because I had an appointment, he eventually slept 10:00-10:35 with an awakening at 10:10 when he resettled. That's 1:50 hrs A time!

E 11:20
S I started 12:00, swaddled, at 12:20 I managed to snap him out of his hysteria and he fell asleep quietly staring into space at 12:30 (1:55 hrs A time) but jolted & woke up 8 min later, went hysteric again... Despite the the swaddle I need to hold him down, he's squirming like hell.

When should I give up and how much later should I try again? He's proven he can scream for 1h with all the shhh pats in the world.

Offline becj86

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2017, 19:11:18 pm »
It sounds like something is really upsetting him. So it could 'just' be that he knows the winddown leads to naptime and isn't keen when he's undertired, hence the protest... then he he becomes overtired during the process. This is something I find happens with long wind downs sometimes. Some babies do great with them, some just don't.

He may be upset about the transition from one activity to another. You could try taking some item from his play activity to bed with him (remove once aslerp is needed for safety). My son took a spoon everywhere with him for a while. Have you introduced a lovey/comfort item? That is also worth a try.

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 08:37:45 am »
Could be what you wrote in your first paragraph. A lovey I think would be futile at this point. He's only just 3 months old, he barely knows his hands belong to him. Earliest I read that a lovey could be introduced with somewhat success and recognition is 4 months. I will try that soon.

Thanks... I will try anything that comes to mind. So far I see that if I put him on his belly he calms down sooner (5-30 min instead of 45-60). And I can only hope that time goes faster and he grows up.

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2017, 03:32:52 am »
He started waking up happily to play at 5:00 am. He sleeps very badly from 8:00 pm to about 1:00/1:30 am, waking up 3-4 times in this interval, then manages to sleep one long cycle of about 3-4 hrs and is up chatting and playing at 5:00. I do manage to put him down again, takes about 45 min, and then he sleeps (on his belly and quite agitated due to all the noise around from DD1 getting ready for kindergarten) until 8:00.

I know that normally EW is a sign he needs to increase his A time. Considering he starts fussing that he's sleepy already at 1h and then ends up crying and finally falling asleep at around 1:55-2:00h, to what should I increase?? And he sleeps just 30 min, what A time could he possibly handle more?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 03:40:23 am by Ciuci »

Offline becj86

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 06:35:36 am »
He's still about 3 months, yes? If so, really the aim is to get him to fall asleep around 1.5hr.

Can you resettle that 30min waking?

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 14:15:40 pm »
Nope, never.

He just turned 3 months. Last night he woke up 7 times within 10 hrs. Today we had to drive some 2h one way and 2h back, he cried the whole time and couldn't settle down. He ended up with 2:45 and 3:00 hrs A time :(

Offline becj86

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2017, 04:29:19 am »
Have you tried being in the room at 25min through the nap and settling him as he stirs rather than waiting til he's awake and really upset?

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 05:56:22 am »
Yup. Never managed to resettle. I also tried w2s at around 20-25 min, max it has brought was 45 min sleep.

Offline becj86

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 09:54:51 am »
How are things going? Do you think there's pain involved? Its unusual to sleep this poorly.

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 11:02:20 am »
It cannot be that he's happily playing on the mat and has no pain, but the moment it's nap time and he goes in bed he suddenly feels pain. It's obviously something developmental.

We average 2hrs A time, out of which the last hour is screaming and crying. After a 30 min nap he's showing signa of tiredness already after 1h (fussiness), so I start the wind-down routine. Meanwhile I've tried full light, full dark, no reading, yes reading, changed song. The moment he's in bed he starts crying and gets more and more worked up. I've even tried Pupd, it takes ages for him to settle even in my arms. In the end due to whatever combination, he falls asleep at around 2 hrs.

Nights are still horrible, he can rarely link more than 2h sleep, sometimes up after only 10 min. I can hear him, he sleeps and suddenly starts fussing and getting worked up, within 10 sec he's fully awake and fussing more and more.

He also has 1h gaps in the night, when I BF after a waking and need to change his diaper, he's so awake afterwards and he stays up chatting ad blowing bubbles. I put him in bed and 50% of the time he settles within 30 min and goes peacefully to sleep on his own, 50% he starts getting worked up ao I take him and resettle either at the breast or on my shoulder.

I will continue to try various methods and can only hope that after the 4 month leap and probable sleep regression (can it get worse??) he will finally grow up mentally.

What annoys me is that he was able to sleep beautifully at night, in 5-3-3 cycles, with short BF breaks in-between and then back to bed. It all changed after the last leap which coincided with my decision to stop wearing him in the sling for every day nap.

Offline becj86

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 19:36:27 pm »
He can be distracted though. I do wonder if the fussiness at 1hr is pain rather than sleepiness.

It may be worth reading through this to see if the symptoms ring a bell. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 19:40:53 pm by becj86 »

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2017, 20:08:54 pm »
Reading through I do wonder if there is more to this that 'just' sleep habits or development.  I know I'm not there and I take your point that it seems odd that he would be happy one minute then so upset when you take him for sleep - but I do think Bec has a very good point about distraction.  I had a happy, relaxed, lovely second baby....who was really bad at sleep.  It took us over a year to work out he had dairy and soya allergies - he was growing well, had no eczema, seemed happy enough until bedtime.  But in retrospect there were subtle clues that I put down to 'just him'/personality/being a second child who got lots of colds etc etc.  I'm clearly not saying that's the exact issue here!!  But worth just not dismissing outright :)

Otherwise, I would just encourage you that he is only 13/14 weeks.  For my two I noticed a big difference between 3 months and 4 months in terms of settling abilities.  Interestingly DD particularly would fight naps like crazy if I took her up UT....I wonder if your LO might be similar (I think Bec said similarly)....and I noticed this:

We average 2hrs A time, out of which the last hour is screaming and crying. After a 30 min nap he's showing signa of tiredness already after 1h (fussiness), so I start the wind-down routine.
I think even though he is showing tired signs, it is probably accumulated and he's not yet ready for a nap again.  I would just stick to taking him up at about 1h30, only shortening by a few mins if really needed after a short nap. 

What are you doing while he is crying for so long?  Are you using shh pat or similar?  Do you pick him up to calm him?
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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2017, 22:04:37 pm »
What would happen if instead of putting him to bed you just left him lying under the mobile he likes to watch? Might he just fall asleep without the fuss? I used to do this with my first sometimes and just potter about the room until he fell asleep.

Maybe also consider letting him just fall asleep on the play mat in the living room or such. It's recommended that they sleep in the same room as you at this age anyway.

How many BFs is he having a day?
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Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2017, 01:28:03 am »
Thanks, i wrote above, I can easily rule out reflux.

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2017, 16:55:39 pm »
Obviously you are there and know him best.  Please do remember though we are all just mums trying to help each other out.

There are quite a few other suggestions in the posts above - do you think any of them may help you?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 17:00:31 pm by jessmum46 »
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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 08:42:45 am »
Hi there
I stopped by with a "fresh pair of eyes" to have a look at your issues.
it looks like the previous posters have covered pretty much everything already.

I'd like to pick up and go over a couple of points which I feel you might not have fully considered:
Thanks, i wrote above, I can easily rule out reflux.
Reflux and silent reflux cause huge huge problems for babies - more so when it is not recognised or diagnosed.  You did say you had been to the doc and LO is well as a result you have totally ruled out the possibility of reflux.  I would say it is a mistake to totally rule it out because it sounds very much like something (reflux or something else perhaps) is really bothering your baby and each of the previous posters has felt the same about the chance of reflux pain.
Left untreated reflux or silent reflux can cause permanent damage to the oesophagus (did you know this?) and a whole host of problems with development further down the line.  I would not dismiss the possibility until it has been thoroughly investigated.

I will tell you my experience: I took my LO to the doctor several times and was told each time my DS was fine, because he would smile at the doc and be a happy little chap.  The ladies here at BW encouraged me to explore further because although the doctors had ruled out reflux, my descriptions of my LOs sleep and behaviour were very easily recognised by this community.  I went back to the doctor and demanded a referral to the hospital to see a paediatrician.

We had to wait for the appointment to come through, by this time my baby had been suffering longer than I dare to think about.

Within 2 or 3 minutes of walking into the paediatricians office she diagnosed silent reflux and prescribed medication.
Just like that.  She said it was obvious.
The paediatrician only asked me a couple of questions and she said she could hear the reflux even before she held my baby.
I was astounded.  My DS was 5.5 months old by this point.
We started the medication and sure enough it worked.

I had further experience of the doctor telling me everything is fine and this community telling me the reflux was flaring up when my DS was older.  Again the community recognised the symptoms, the sleep problems, crying, behaviour etc and advised me to get the medication dose checked.  I took their advice and went to the doc to check. The doc said he was on the right dose, the max he could have and there was nothing wrong with my DS.
The ladies here said otherwise though and even explained to me the dosage they thought he should be on.  They had to convince me to explore this further because i had already been to the doctor (probably a few times).
I rang the paediatrician at the hospital, told her my DS's weight and symptoms and the dosage was immediately increased - he had been taking roughly one quarter of the dose he needed!  One quarter!
The new dose prescribed by the paediatrician matched exactly the dose the ladies here had worked out.
Guess what - on the new dose he did great.
(by the way, I did not and would never medicate my child purely on the advise of people on an on-line forum.  I waited until I had the go ahead and approval of our paediatrician.)

Listen - we are not doctors, we are not paediatricians, we are "just parents" but the wealth of knowledge brought together here, from parents all around the world, is a VAST amount of experience.  I would not dismiss it without thorough investigation.

I have given you our silent reflux story and I would like to pick up a couple of other points too.

In the car I drive while keeping with one hand the paci in his mouth or replugging it hundreds of times (no exaggeration), stroller the same.
From both yours and your LO's points of view I imagine this is just horrible.
Why not just accept he doesn't like a paci?  My DS did not take a paci, he would just push it from his mouth. At times when he was screaming blue murder my own mother blamed me for it because I wouldn't give him a paci but it wasn't that I wouldn't give him one it's that he didn't want one, the screaming was for something else.  A paci can be a source of comfort for some babies but others just do not want it.  Why persist so much?  I would just accept that the crying is not for the paci it is because of something else, discover what the something else is and you have no need for the paci or the hundreds of re-plugs or holding it in his mouth.
In my experience of having a LO who refused a paci I felt at times I had to work harder to find out what was bothering him rather than just being able to stop the crying with a paci.  There are benefits to having no paci though - you don't have to re-plug and you don't have the problem of weaning it later on. Much better for tooth development in the long run too.

A lovey I think would be futile at this point. He's only just 3 months old, he barely knows his hands belong to him. Earliest I read that a lovey could be introduced with somewhat success and recognition is 4 months.
There are plenty of people in this community who have successfully introduced a lovely at a younger age than you state.  My own LO had a lovely (a muslin square) from day 1.  Yes, day 1.  Now, I'm sure on day 1 he did not bond with his muslin, likely not on day 2 either, or 3...but I can tell you that within just a few weeks he absolutely associated his muslin with comfort.  He had his muslin for every sleep and by around 8 wks was falling to sleep independently in the cot in the family room for naps with the muslin snuggled right up to his face where he could feel and smell it (and me watching closely so that he was not in danger).  I removed the muslin from his bed each time he fell asleep so that it was not a danger, until he was much older when I knew he was capable of sleeping safely with it.  He still sleeps with a muslin now at 6 years old and takes a mini muslin to school in his pocket - it's his secret source of confidence and comfort.
I would give it a go.

There are quite a few suggestions on this thread.  I would suggest reading back and trying some of them out.
There are also a few questions too - if you can answer those the community would have a better understanding of what is going on and more suggestions and advice could come as a result.
Perhaps when you have a little time to spare you can re-read the full thread and consider each point?

Meanwhile - many hugs. There is clearly something bothering your LO and it is extremely hard work parenting a LO who cries so much and sleeps so little.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 08:49:21 am by creations »


Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2017, 19:16:39 pm »
Gosh, thanks so much for all the replies and ideas! Please don't think I don't appreciate it -- I do! I didn't mean to be so curt before, I was seriously sleep deprived and at my wits' end, I didn't realize there was a 2nd page with replies and suggestions. So, I'll try to take it one by one:

- reflux, even if silent: I've gone through the list of symptoms not only here, but on other websites as well. I still don't think it likely. He has maximum 15% of the symptoms, and those are related to the sleep, which can be also due to other things. The only times he spits out (throw up is never the question) is when I lay him on his belly right after a feed. Heck, even I would throw up if I did that, and I don't have reflux of any kind! Also, he doesn't seem to be more comfortable in an upright position - on the contrary. He seriously hates the car seat even when he's full, changed, freshly woken up and happy the second before (we're already at our 2nd car seat, we changed it just in case it was the position / squeeze he didn't like) and he appears to be quite disliking the bouncer as well. On the other hand, he loves laying on his back in bed under his mobile or on his activity mat under his toys, and laughs and is really happy when I put him there even if it's right after a feed.
But you know how it is - when more people start telling you about pink elephants, you start to see pink elephants everywhere. We have a doc appointment next Monday, I will bring it up, see what she thinks.

- I am also quite hopeful of the 4 months leap. My DD1 was also extremely colicky and fussy, I carried her in the sling the whole first 4 months, I would walk whole kilometers with her on my arm through the apartment... and at 4 months and a couple of days she suddenly stopped. It was like she became another child, almost overnight. I remember I was in a special therapy with her because she was screaming so much, and suddenly I felt it was pointless to go anymore - none of the symptoms or the behaviour from before applied anymore. So maybe her brother steps in her footprints...

- yesterday and today I managed to get his signals perfectly for 2 naps, when he fell asleep within 3 minutes, with just a very tiny amount of fussiness. Yesterday it was at 1:00 A time, after a very fitful 30 min sleep after his father tried to put him to sleep and didn't quite manage, and today it was the first nap, at 1:30 A time. Somehow this gives me hope. The rest of the naps he did in the sling both days, because we were out and about.

- when he's crying before falling asleep I stay with him the whole time and try various things (not all at once and not all at the same nap): shh/pat, shh/caress, caress only, no touch, sing, speak to him, change positions, pick up on my shoulder, swaddle... But he works himself up in such a hysteria, it's unbelievable. There's not one single thing that I can point out and say "aha, this works, he immediately calmed down when I did this".

- "What would happen if instead of putting him to bed you just left him lying under the mobile he likes to watch?" -- When he gets tired, he starts to fuss. The more tired he becomes, the more he fusses, he starts to cry out, first just a little, then more and more until it becomes real crying. If I just leave him there he just gets more and more worked up to the point of hysterics. I've started taking him upstairs for his nap in order to create a routine, clear steps he would associate with going to sleep.

- I BF him roughly every 2.5 hrs, which is in a very big part given by the EASY routine - not necessarily that he cries of hunger, but because I want to establish this routine of eating after he woke up. If I prolong (he can take it), I end up BF'ing right before sleep time, he then falls asleep at the breast, gets mad when I unplug him and take him to sleep without it... a whole mess.

- I've given up on the pacifier. It was just a useless prop - I was desperately trying him to accept it, and when he finally did, I would have to keep replugging it because he would cry that he'd dropped it. Totally nonsense.

- With DD1 I introduced a lovey at 5 months and up until 11 months she totally ignored it and didn't even acknowledge it. Granted, he's not her, so his lovey is already ordered and should arrive any day now.

Separately:
- I've noticed that sometimes at night it works when I don't resettle with the breast, but rather take him up on my shoulder and shh/pat. This is definitely a relief when he's waking up less than 1h apart, which is clearly not due to hunger. It's even worked a couple of times for the bedtime (after serious BF but still not able to fall deeply asleep because of OT), so maaaaybe it might work with naps as well (so far not).
- Amidst the crazy nights with waking every 2hrs or less he's managed in the last week two nights when he linked 5hrs. A bit of light at the end of the tunnel.
- Today he laughed for the first time :) Not smile, but real laugh. It's not sleep related but it did give me a boost :)

I hope I've covered everything. In short - 1) I will investigate the possibility of silent reflux, 2) I will try to pay more attention at his cues and hope I can time it right like I managed to yesterday and today, and 3) I will keep trying other methods like lovey or falling asleep on my shoulder in hopes I find a "switch".

Thank you again for all the support, you're all amazing mamas for keeping up this forum! I'll report back when I have something.

Offline becj86

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2017, 01:07:28 am »
Glad you're seeing some encouraging moments - they really do help!

I just wanted to say had I posted with my son's issues at this age, I'd have been told to consider reflux too. He actually was struggling with my oversupply and overactive letdown and I just realised I don't think I've posted about that for you - the thing that made me think of that was this:
I've noticed that sometimes at night it works when I don't resettle with the breast, but rather take him up on my shoulder and shh/pat. This is definitely a relief when he's waking up less than 1h apart, which is clearly not due to hunger.
Something that happens with oversupply/OALD is that LO gulps to cope with the milk flow and takes in air which turns into gas pain 1-1.5hr after a feed. They then look for the breast again because the act of feeding helps them pass the gas. Lots of really thorough burping after a feed as well as tummy massage to help move the gas through rather than feeding frequently can help a lot.

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63604.0

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2017, 07:08:41 am »
Thanks! This really does happen, I hear him gulp air and I think "" :))) The problem is, he falls asleep so deeply after the feed that I can stay there and pat for 10 min and no burp will come out. He mostly burps right when he wakes up the next time.

I guess this can be solved only through time, as my let down settles and as he grows and learns to manage it.

PS. This morning for the first nap it's a failure. I think I took him too soon, he was UT and started crying in frustration, we've been trying to settle for 50 min including 2x taken into another room, read a book, changed scenery. By niw he's so OT he's not reacting to anything anymore, stays in his worked-out bubble.

Offline Ciuci

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2017, 06:22:08 am »
An update: Based on the described behaviour, Dr thinks it's very likely he has reflux. However, as long as he's drinking well and growing fine (which he is), there's no reason to subject him to a gastroscopy, as it would have no medical consequences. He says this improper closing of the aesophagus valve will correct itself within the first year and medical intervention would be the case only if he's completely miserable and not growing.

Meanwhile he started sleeping again in chunks of 2,5-3 hrs at night, with the odd 5 hrs chunk now and then. And during the day I am more aware of his signals and put him down at wround 1:30 A time and he falls asleep  without crying, within 2-5 minutes. It's been going on for a few days, I hope he finally made the click and understood that the bed is for sleeping and I am helping him fall asleep.

4 months leap coming up, let's see how things are afterwards ;)

Offline creations

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2017, 18:09:12 pm »
Today he laughed for the first time :) Not smile, but real laugh.
Oh how lovely :)  Those moments are just wonderful.

Meanwhile he started sleeping again in chunks of 2,5-3 hrs at night, with the odd 5 hrs chunk now and then. And during the day I am more aware of his signals and put him down at wround 1:30 A time and he falls asleep  without crying, within 2-5 minutes. It's been going on for a few days
That's a great update too!

Dr thinks it's very likely he has reflux. However, as long as he's drinking well and growing fine (which he is), there's no reason to subject him to a gastroscopy,
I just wanted to say with regards to this. My DS and very many (I would guess at most) of the LOs on this forum have not had a gastroscopy for reflux.  I agree there is no point in doing procedures like that unless absolutely necessary.  However, many LOs still benefit from reflux medication and there is no ned for a gastroscopy to be prescribed with medication.  Perhaps just keep it in mind as the doc has said it is likely reflux.
Another thing is that so many times people are told babies out grow reflux at 6 months or 12 months, and again many of us have had other experiences. My DS didn't even start his reflux meds until 5.5 months, he was not going to grow out of it within 2 wks, neither did he grow out of it at 12 months. He needed meds until 2yo.  Then he had a long period with no meds but we discovered he has reflux flare ups so for the last few years we have medicated during a flare up and then stopped the meds again when it passes.  He is 6yo now.  I know from support I've had on BW that others experience similar with their children of various ages too.


Offline *Ali*

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Re: 13 weeks, what is his A time??
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 20:50:58 pm »
I actually didn't think it was good to leave reflux untreated though since the acid damages the oesophagus and can cause long term issues. Is this not a worry?

Glad the sleep has improved.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011