SLEEP > Naps
13 weeks, what is his A time??
Ciuci:
I've posted before, unfortunately our naps situation hasn't improved. DS2 is 13 weeks and I have no clue what his A times are. He screams for anything between 20-50 min while I hold tight his arms from flapping, eventually he falls asleep and sleeps 30 min, wakes up crying. I'd say he's OT, I tried putting him down anyhing between 45 min and 2 hrs, tried following cues, but he still falls asleep very difficult and most times he wakes up 2-3 min after falling asleep and cries another 5-10 min before falling asleep exhausted again.
Today for example:
WU & E 7:45
S started at 9:03, he screamed until 10:09 when he fell asleep for 3 min, then after 20 more min of screaming I gave up
E 10:30
S started at 11:30, screamed until 12:00 when he slept 27 min
E 12:30
S started at 13:20, screamed until 14:00, slept 30 min
E 14:45
S started at 15:35, fell asleep at 16:10, slept 4 min, woke up crying and is still crying and fussing (16:24 now).
He sleeps in his own bed in our bedroom, we have a consistebt wind down routine: go upstairs, sing a particular song, put down blinds, "read" a book, and put in bed with white noise. But sometimes we have to mess him up when tending to DD1 eg car rides or buggy rides, he hates and fusses and we give pacifier to make him stop fussing.
I tried pacifier for sleeps, he doesn't take it easily (gag reaction) and then I rnd up being a slave for the pacifier, putting it bacck in every 3 min when he wakes up during his fitful 30 min sleep. He still goes down hard because he keeps gagging on the paci or dropping it and in the end sleeps worse than without. In the car I drive while keeping with one hand the paci in his mouth or replugging it hundreds of times (no exaggeration), stroller the same.
Any tips on figuring out his A time or enabling him to fall asleep easier? 1h of crying for 3 min sleep is really rock bottom :(
becj86:
Hi, sorry you're both having such a rough time.
How long has this been happening? Sounds like he's very unhappy lying flat! How does he sleep at night?
Either way I think a visit to a doctor to make sure there's nothing physically wrong is essential. He could have an ear infection or reflux just to name 2.
To answer your question, at this age, 1.5hr is the typical A time and its worth starting there. Do you swaddle? Might be worth considering that as likely he may not like being held down for and hour either.
Have you tried a different paci? One that causes gagging is possibly too big for his mouth. I'd hate to have something in my mouth that induces gagging as I'm sure does LO.
Ciuci:
Hi, thanks for the reply!
It's been going on for the past approx 3 weeks, since I decided I cannot continue to carry him in a sling for all his 4-6 naps. Because of DD1 he got used to sleeping only in the sling, and if at first he could sleep even 3h there, it got progressively worse and worse, to the point where he could only sleep if I would walk with him OUTSIDE, and then he would always wake up just 30 min later. I cannot carry and walk around 6 kg of a baby all day long, he needs to sleep in his bed.
He has no reflux and no other physical problems. He's been to the doc since, and he is just fine. He has no problem lying flat on his activity mat or even in his bed looking at the carousel on top, and even straight after eating, so I can rule out reflux easily.
I used to swaddle, but when he cries before falling asleep he becomes so hysterical, he fights to break the swaddle and I end up holding his hands tight anyway, so I left the swaddle out. It didn't help with the jolts, either, he still wakes up fully and starts crying, no matter if I swaddle or keep my hand firmly on his arms.
We have 3 different pacifiers from 3 different producers, with different shapes. The gag reaction is the same and it takes a while before he accepts it, then spits it out and then starts fussing that it's gone. And repeat from the start, with no exaggeration even 50 times before he falls asleep in the car or stroller.
At night he used to sleep well, he started connecting first 4-5 hrsand then 2,5-3 hrs, meaning he would go down at 8:00pm (falling asleep at the breast), then would wake up roughly 2:00 am and 5:00 am and be up at 8:00 am for the day. Each time he would wake up, I would BF and he'd fall back asleep within 15-20 min, or he would fall back asleep on his own in his crib later.
Since he's sleeping so bad during the day, he started sleeping bad during the night, too. It takes him approx 1,5-2h to fall asleep (falls asleep at breast, I put him in his crib, he wakes up instantly.or within 5 min, we start from the top), is fast asleep finally at around 8:00 pm and then wakes up every max 2,5 h: usually 11:00 pm, 2:00 am, 3:30 am at which point I put him back to sleep on his belly and he sleeps like that from approx 4/4:30 - 8:00 am. (He's next to me and we have a monitor).
I know average A time is 1:30, that means I should start wind down at around 1:10 from when he wakes up, to allow to fall asleep by 1:30, right? I've tried starting at 1:10, 1:00, even 0:55, on the other end at 1:20 or 1:30, I tried starting after 1st yawn or after 3rd yawn, I tried waiting until he rubbed his eyes or starting when he was just staring into space... The problem is, we still have MININUM 30 min of hysterical crying before falling exhausted asleep, no matter when I start. I can't seem to find his "sweet spot!" It happened probably 2 times in the last 2 weeks that we did the pre-nap ritual and he fell quietly asleep within 5 min. I tried to replicate the conditions later, didn't work.
I'm out of ideas. And of patience...
becj86:
Could be worth dropping the ritual and just doing something simple like walk in at 1:28 A time, swaddle, PD in bed.
Sounds like he's possibly associating the bed as a bad place now - perhaps try sleeping him swaddled on the living room floor or something so he's not getting as upset...
He will be really overtired just from not sleeping well for weeks on end - stick with 1.5hr A by the clock, do away with the WD thing since its not working (doesn't work for every baby, often spirited ones love or hate it, sounds like he hates it).
I presume he's definitely not hungry?
I wonder about gas - how often is he feeding? When he's very upset, does he look for the breast? Is this upset usually starting approx. 1hr after a feed? Is he burping well?
What I find when a LO is so OT as this is that its easiest to take the training in steps - get the sleeping happening in a reasonable routine (however you have to get LO to sleep), then sort out the independent sleep thing when the body is more rested and more used to sleeping properly.
Ciuci:
He doesn't have a negative association with the bed - in the mornings he plays happily alone there while I shower. I can rule out hunger, too - he does the same thing whether he last ate an hour or 15 min ago. If I take him at the breast for sleeping, I become the pacifier - the moment I take it out (and he's asleep), he wakes up within 3 min and searches for it again.
I can rule out gas as well. He was quite gassy/colicky in the beginning, but now it cannot be that he's playing happily on his activity mat or being calm, and the moment he goes in bed for sleeping all mother of gas is upon him ;)
I will try no ritual, even if I find that even more confusing, one moment he's playing happily on the mat and the next I plop him in bed.
It's like he's afraid of falling asleep or hates it...
Today so far:
WU & E 8:10
S he started giving signs at 8:55 already. At 9:00 I started, by 9:30 he was still screaming, I left him with my MIL because I had an appointment, he eventually slept 10:00-10:35 with an awakening at 10:10 when he resettled. That's 1:50 hrs A time!
E 11:20
S I started 12:00, swaddled, at 12:20 I managed to snap him out of his hysteria and he fell asleep quietly staring into space at 12:30 (1:55 hrs A time) but jolted & woke up 8 min later, went hysteric again... Despite the the swaddle I need to hold him down, he's squirming like hell.
When should I give up and how much later should I try again? He's proven he can scream for 1h with all the shhh pats in the world.
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