Author Topic: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old  (Read 2063 times)

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Offline NattysMom

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Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« on: October 05, 2017, 01:44:11 am »

My daughter has just turned 5 months old and I'm having issues with short naps and feeding to sleep. She is exclusively BF and eats every 3 hrs with 1-2 Night feeds. I wasn't quite sure which board to put this on, sorry if it's the wrong place.

We started shh-pat at 10 weeks because I wasn't able to put her down until she was in a deep sleep and she would usually wake up the moment I put her down.  Now she can go to sleep independently but she wants to be fed until drowsy most of the time.

My easy is not so great, I try to feed when she wakes up but she will only have a little snack just so she's not starving anymore because she wants to be fed to sleep later. I've also tried feeding an hour after waking but she just snacks again. So when nap time rolls around she is ready to take a full feed. The moment she stops eating but drowsy I put her down, she is still awake and I walk away usually with no issues. There are times when she stays awake after eating and goes to sleep no problem but not very often.
I'm trying to stop the eating until drowsy part so I tried waking her up a bit (talk to her, hold up sitting, go outside) when she's drowsy after eating which she did not like. Now only twice after doing this she's been fussing/fighting before each nap and bedtime, like she wants to eat but she doesn't want to get woken up! So she ends up very OT and sometimes we both give in to feeding to sleep.

45 minute naps have been happening since around 6 or 7 weeks, at first she took a longer morning nap but eventually they all became short. I've had no luck extending with shh-pat or W2S, shh-pat she just snaps her eyes wide open and won't go back down and for W2S I've gone in at different times to find the right point in her cycle but they don't go any longer. I tried W2S for morning naps at first and then tried for afternoon naps because she usually wakes up tired. They are almost always 45 mins, very rarely 1-2hr (maybe 3 times in a month).  Awake time is usually 2 to 2 hours 30 mins. Usually awake times are longer earlier in the day and they get shorter later in the day as she gets more and more tired. She doesn't use a pacifier. She usually wakes up happy, stretches and talks for 10 mins then cries for me to get her but sometimes later in the afternoon she wakes up still tired.

This is my approx easy give or take 15 mins, sometimes if she wakes up really tired there is an extra nap with shorter awake times in the afternoon.

WU 8

E 830
A 2h15
S 1015-11

E 1130
A 2h30
S 130-215

E 230
A 2h15
S 430-515

E 530
A 2h15
E 7
BT 730

DF 1015

1-2 NF b/t 230-530

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline becj86

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 04:59:30 am »
Hi :)

E 830A 2h15S 1015-11
Here, she is having an undertired nap, so you can increase this A time. I'd try 2:30 for a few days and see if that nap lengthens.

E 1130A 2h30S 130-215
Here, she is having an overtired nap, so that tells you she can't quite do 2:30 off a 45min nap, so reduce to 2:15 after a short nap and see how that goes.

With the feeding to sleep - Is she rooting, looking for food at what would be sleep time based on her A time? If so, rooting may just be her sleepy cue as I was for my son, so rather than feeding at that time, putting her down for a nap might reduce the fighting. Its worth a shot.

Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 13:46:19 pm »
Thanks for the reply, I will see how today goes and get back to you. She can barely make it to 2 hours for her first awake time but I'll try to stretch it today.
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 16:33:35 pm »
Here's our day so far:

WU 820

E 840 Likely not a full feed but refused more

Started wind down at 1020 (turn out lights, white noise, sleep sack)
Started yawning and rested head on shoulder.
Put down and left, fussed for a few mins then started shrieking and sucking on clothes.
Picked up, started rooting, tried pupd for 25 mins, cried as soon as put down every time. She was very tired like she was trying to sleep (closing eyes) but then would snap out of it and get angry, also tried pacifier.
Eventually fed at 1045, she seemed hungry probably bc she didn't eat enough before and I didn't want her to go to sleep hungry.
Put down at 1050 and left, cried 1 min later (this sometimes happens a few times when OT), picked up for 10 secs then left, asleep within a few mins.

Woke up at 1130
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline becj86

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 19:38:20 pm »
Alright, so she may well be hungry then - something you can do there if she can't manage 4hr is to make it 3hr by giving a topup feed an hour after the main feed - this allows LO to get enough food (and you will just replace these topups with solids soon anyway) and allows her to still get hungry enough in between feeds to take a full feed as it sounds like maybe she's snacking if she's feeding before and after every nap.

Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 20:39:56 pm »
Ok I will try the top up feed.

This is how our next nap went:

Started sleepy cues at 130 (awake 2 hours)
Went to sleep pretty easily at 140 but woke 10 mins later at 150 maybe something woke her up, but woke up happy & chatty; wouldn't resettle
put down at 2, cried pupd, started rooting
Fed at 205 but this time she stopped before she got drowsy
Stayed awake for a bit
Started to get sleepy at 220; Put down at 225, tried to sleep, left room, resettled several times, prob OT by now
Slept from 240-320
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 01:16:41 am »
This is the rest of our day:

Woke up happy from last nap at 320

A 1h55
E 430
S 515-555 husband put down, took approx 20 mins of pupd, woke up tired

A 2h15
E 7 had a bottle (only ate 3oz)
BT down at 8 after 10 mins of pupd, cried out at 810 but resettled with a shhhh from hall.

She'll have a dreamfeed at 1015

We'll start again fresh tomorrow with the top off after an hour. We don't usually do bottle but we're having a babysitter tomorrow night and wanted to see how she'd be with the bottle, I'm surprised she only ate 3oz.
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 15:18:20 pm »
One night feed at 2am

WU 710
E 710
810 top off: didn't want to eat
830 Tried again and she ate just past let down
845 started getting fussy/tired
920 very upset, only wanted to be held
925 nap routine, started whining, walked around house, every time entered her room she started to cry, after 10 mins, went to her room and she tried rooting but only once then at 937 she relaxed and closed her eyes
938 put down
939 left room
S 940-1010

She had a really hard time making it 2h30 for her first awake time and her nap was only 30 mins so isn't that OT, should I go back to 2h15?

Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2017, 16:13:52 pm »
WU 710
E 710
A
E 830
A
S 940-1010
A
E 1110

I'm now giving her main feed at 1110 which she wanted at 1040 but I stretched it.
How can I give her a top up in an hour or so if that's her next nap time?
She's already rubbing her eyes and I think she should have a shorter awake time since the short nap.  If we had longer naps we wouldn't have this Issue but I'm not sure how to deal with this?
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2017, 20:41:12 pm »
The rest of today is kind of a disaster as we had chainsawing and wood chipping outside on our street so her nap was in the car because she couldn't sleep at home and then we have a grandparents watching tonight so we shall start fresh tomorrow! Thank you for your help so far!  :)
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline becj86

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 04:29:26 am »
Ok, so by main feed, I mean the feed when she wakes up - No need to make her wait if she's woken and hungry.

The issue with going to 2:15 A time is that she was taking 45min UT naps there so increasing to 2:30 is reasonable. It can take a few days for LO to get used to the new A time and 30min OT naps can happen but should be relatively easy to resettle.

You're right, you should reduce the A time by about 15min or so after a short nap.


Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 15:35:36 pm »
Yesterday she had a short morning nap which she wouldn't extend but then had a 1.5 hour nap in the afternoon. And today she's going on 1.5 hour for her morning nap! Yay!! Thank you so much! I had tried increasing her first awake time in the past but then she was OT so I thought it was too much, I didn't realize I had to stick with it. We will see this afternoon if she does it again.
Do you think she should be taking 2 long naps or is just 1 ok?
Also if she goes past 2 hours would you wake her up or let her have as much as she wants?

And the top ups are keeping her satisfied for naps but she never takes a full feed. I suppose it's only for a few weeks until we start solids so hopefully it all works out.
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline becj86

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2017, 01:17:34 am »
Do you think she should be taking 2 long naps or is just 1 ok?
A this age, ideally there are 2x1.5hr naps and a catnap. You're headed for dropping the catnap and moving to 2 long naps by around 6-7 months - this will happen reasonably naturally if you just watch her for cues and increase A times gradually.

Also if she goes past 2 hours would you wake her up or let her have as much as she wants?
I tend to suggest that you cap the nap if it goes more than 2hr by going in and watching for LO to stir around 2:15 and just wake them when they stir - its nicer to wake up that way, less screaming ;) Otherwise, wake at 2:30 absolute max. nap time, especially if its the first nap of the day or you can get problems with the first part of your night.

And the top ups are keeping her satisfied for naps but she never takes a full feed. I suppose it's only for a few weeks until we start solids so hopefully it all works out.
Does she take a bigger feed when she first wakes? You can wean the topups by just moving them closer to the main feed but given you'll start solids soon, its potentially not worth it - your call :)

Offline NattysMom

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2017, 16:16:20 pm »
So far she's had 1 long nap 3 out of 4 days! Woohoo!!

Usually her main feed is barely anything, she takes more from the top up and I worry she's getting too much foremilk (based on her poo). Except yesterday she ate at her main feeds better and refused all top ups.

Last night she woke up way more than usual, ate at 7, bed at 730, DF 10 then woke at 1215, 150 (ate decent both times) then woke at 515 ate a bit and wouldn't go back to sleep until 7, usually it's once, maybe twice and not that early in the night.

Woke at 830, at 9 she was hungry but barely ate to let down for her main and kept refusing. She eventually ate more a half hour before her nap.

She's all over the place right now. I'm worried when we start solids it will be hard because I'll want her to take a full feed first which some days it is never it seems.
Rachel          ~ 🌷🌼 Natalie Aurora 💗 May 2017 🌼🌷 ~

Offline becj86

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Re: Feeding to sleep & 45 min naps for 5 month old
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2017, 09:22:51 am »
I worry she's getting too much foremilk (based on her poo).
Are you feeding from one or both breasts at each feed? If you're doing one for each feed, I'd suggest doing the main feed and topup from the same breast, then giving the other if she's still hungry.
You can also try massaging the breast close to the chest wall (not near the areola/nipple area) to help break the fat off the walls of the ducts so the fat content is higher from the start of the feed.