5 month old who was sleeping through now waking twice a night to feed

[Serenede]

Hi,

I wonder if someone could take a look at our EASY and see if there is something contributing to my LO waking twice a night and only settling when fed. He was previously sleeping through 11-12 hours.

7.15- WU
E-8am- 5oz milk (not very interested)
A-7.15-9.15
S-9-9.45 (usually falls asleep on the way back from school although if DH is working from home he can usually put him down at home and stretch the activity to two hours)
A- 9.45-11.45
E-11.15 7oz milk (recently I've not been able to push him more than three hours between feeds, a couple of weeks ago it was 3.5-4)
S- 11.45-1.45
A-1.45-3.45
E- 2.45 7oz milk
S- 3.45-4.30 falls asleep on school run
A- 4.30- 6.45
E- 5.30 5oz milk (always seems hungry at this time and would eat more but then won't eat before bed)
BT- 6.45- eats 6-7oz milk before being put down
NW- these are random but never before 1am and usually around 1.30 and again at 5. He screams and thrashes around, have tried offering water and trying to resettle with shushing but just doesn't work and he will only settle with milk. I have tried calpol and teething gel just in case. I have reduced his feeds to 4-5oz at night and he will go back to sleep but isn't happy when the bottle is finished.

He is bottle fed
His daytime naps have greatly improved from all being 30-40 minutes. If he does sleep longer at both naps it doesn't stop the night wakes so don't think it's from being OT.
He settles to sleep for all naps and BT by himself and never feeds to sleep even in the night.

So do you think it's genuine hunger why he has started waking? As I said he is wanting to eat more frequently during the day too. Should I start to introduce solids yet??
I don't want to start a habit with feeding at night but there doesn't seem to be any option?  Any ideas?

[Serenede]

So the not before 1am has turned in to midnight tonight
DH is currently shush patting as it just seems too early for food? Will see if there is any success

[Serenede]

So the shush pat worked and he was back to sleep in 40 minutes and didn’t wake again until 7am so I am pretty sure he’s not waking due to hunger. Our EASY yesterday looked like this:

Woke at 3.30am and shush patted for 40 minutes, back to sleep only to wake 20 minutes later with a nappy leak! Changed and put back to bed and slept until i woke him.

7.40am- WU
E-5oz
A-7.40-9.20-fell asleep on school run
S-9.20-9.50
E-11am 6oz
A-9.50-11.30
S-11.30-13.45
E-14.15 70z also tried a bit of carrot
A-13.45-16.00
S-16.00-16.45
E-17.30 5oz
A-16.45-19.00
E-18.45 8oz
BT-19.00 striaght to sleep

Nw-01.30-shush patted for 45 minutes but he was wide awake so left him to settle as he wasnt upset and went back to sleep at 2.30am

07.10-WU
I have managed to keep him going this morning on the school run and put him down when we got back so he went down at 09.10 so will see how long he goes for.

I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on why this might be happening? Ive definitely noticed he needs slightly longer activity time more 2-2.15 now so trying to go with that.

[Serenede]

NW again at 1.30 am still doing shush pat now at 2.25 
Wondering if he’s getting too much sleep at the lunchtime nap might try cutting it to 1.5 hours although this means he will need two cat naps to get to bedtime but nothing else to loose at this point I guess?

[Serenede]

So gave up and fed him 5oz which settled him but now he’s woken 20 mins later! Have changed his nappy  and put him back down. Seems like he’s ready to get up for the day and it’s 3.15am! 

[Serenede]

He went back to sleep but woke again at 5.40 and needed shushing then woke for the day at 7.30am.
I know it’s going to be really difficult to keep him going for two hours this morning before the first nap

[ginger428]

Hi there and sorry there wasn't a reply sooner...

It really does sound like it started with a growth spurt, especially since the NWs are at different times... meaning it's not habitual yet. When does he turn 6 mo? Just remember that along with the growth spurt, there are developmental leaps, too, that cause temporary night disturbances.  Is he rolling to tummy? He seems to be eating plenty during the day and as long as your pediatrician cleared it, started solids is fine but usually best at 6 mo.  (Helps with digestive issues).

I would not do sh-pat for longer than 15 mins... in fact, if he is not crying, I would wait 5-10 min to attend to him, then shpat for 15, then feed a few oz. if he doesn't settle.  Growth spurt related NWs usually last a week or so, so we can see if anything changes around that time.

The increase in A time is a good idea and I would see how it helps after 3-5 days. Just keep in mind that if he is truly staying up for an hr or longer at a time at night, he may be more tired than usual during the day. So I wouldn't change it too drastic... perhaps only add 10-15 mins while we see if the NWs calm down in the next few days.

Like you suspect, we might be seeing the 3-2 nap transition, and the 5-6mo development all at once. The EW might be due to this. The increase in A time might help him have long 2 naps, as opposed to the 1 long + 2CN.

[ginger428]

Hi Serenade... just edited my comments after remembering that the 3-2 nap changes could cause the early wakes...

[Serenede]

Hi,

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply, this parenting business can seem lonely at times!

No he’s not doing any rolling yet but he does seem to be very busy and changing in one way or another a lot at the moment. I’ve given him a teaspoon of carrot for the last three days but he’s not showing much interest so will stop for now especially as I’m sure he’s not hungry at night.

I am reluctant to cap his lunchtime nap as he seems to really like it and is so happy for the rest of the afternoon. It has also helped that we can just have three naps instead of four when he was only sleeping 45 mins for every nap. It also gives more consistency to the day and BT is the same each night. If I could get him having two longer naps then he might drop the CN but he just doesn’t respond to being resettled and it seems like he can only do one longer nap per day. He is 21 weeks tomorrow so not 6 months for another three weeks.

Today I was able to stay home when DH took DD to school so put him down after 1.50 instead of two hours and he slept for 1.5 hours. He was very happy after this nap and we got to 2.5 hours A time before he started getting tired but then only slept for 30 minutes so I’m guessing OT? He had another 45 mins a bit later and then had 2.5 hours before BT. He is going down very quickly after his bottle and I’m feeling I’m almost feeding him to sleep so might have to try bringing BT forward a touch to avoid this?

Ok I’ll go with the short shush pats and see how tonight is.

Thanks again, will update tomorrow x

[ginger428]

Since he's not even 5.5 mo yet, I would definitely not push A times yet...
yeah, he might've gone down sooner for the second nap, so I would watch him. 2h15-20min might do the trick.

Oh, I meant he might be going from 3-2 naps, but from what you described I don't think that's the case anymore.  3 naps is good, but he might be approaching 2 naps closer to 6 mo.  Below is a link to avg A times and naps.

If his second nap is longer than 30 mins, stick with 2.5 til bed. That'll help keep BT same and hopefully push that EW out. And if the second nap is closer to an hr or more, I would cap the last nap to 30 mins before bed.

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=248483.0   AVG A times
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=246541.0  NAPS 5/6months

[Serenede]

So last night went like this:

7pm BT
11.30pm- woke, left him as he wasn’t fully crying and I could tell he wa trying to get back to sleep. However he started crying a lot at 12 so I went in and it took 5 mins of shushing for him to go back off
1.45- woke briefly but went back off himself
4am— woke fully crying couldn’t settle him with shushing so gave him 5oz milk and calpol just in case it was his teeth related. Put back down but wouldn’t settle, went in and changed his nappy and put him back down and he slept until 7.30am when I woke him.
So far this morning he’s only had 1 ounce of milk! Guessing he doesn’t really need the night feed?
Any thoughts?

[Serenede]

Just thought i’d Update on today so I dont forget whats happened!

So he slept this morning during DD’s assembley 9.30-10.10
E-10.30am- 6oz milk
A-10.10-12
S-12-2
E-2.15-8oz milk
A-2-4.10
S-4.10-4.50
E-5.15- 6oz milk
A-4.50-7.10
E-9oz milk- BT

He does seem to have increased his milk intake the last couple of days particularly the BT bottle. Will see what tonight brings.

[Serenede]

So last night he woke at 9.30 and 11.30 but it was very brief and he sorted himself out. He then woke at 3am and needed some shushing to get back off. Next wake was 6am which was difficult as i was aware for some people this could be wake up for the day but i try not to get up until 6.30/7 if possible and he was crying so had to go to him. So fed him and put him back down, after a bit of talking he went back off and i woke him for the day at 7.30. He has just gone down for a nap now at 9.30 but aware he will want feeding again by 10.30 so expecting it to be short.

I feel last night was slightly better but is there anything i can do about the EW? I have pushed his first activity time to two hours and dont think he would cope with anymore.
Previous to these night wakes starting he was sleeping 7-7 or sometimes waking around 6 having a feed and going back down so do I just continue this with the EW or is it likely to become habit? I’m also conscious if i get up at 6 with him he will need a nap at 8 and we leave for school at 8.30 so that doesnt work and it would end up being a 13 hour day as i cant really have him in bed for 6/6.30pm.

[Serenede]

Also wondering if I don’t get him up until 7.30 should I be aiming for a 7.30 BT instead of 7? The problem with this is I would have to fit another CN in and it would end up being more like 8 so is it better to just go for 7 and avoid the extra CN?

[Serenede]

So last night he slept 7-6.40am!!! Really pleased just hoping its not a one off. Also the last three days he has only napped for 45 mins per nap, so frustrating, im not sure if he’s OT or UT? Our day today has been as follows. All activity times over the last three days have been 2 hours/2 hours 10:

6.40am- WU
7AM-E-7oz
A-6.40-8.50
S-8.50-9.30, he was showing tired signs at 1h50 but tried pushing it to see if it would help with a longer nap but obviously not. He also struggled going off
A-9.30-11.30
E-11am 8oz
S-11.30-12.20-couldnt resettle
A-12.20-2.20
S-2.20-3.10-sleep in sling
E-3.20-7oz
A-3.10-6 tried giving CN at 5 but wouldn’t go off so went for a walk and he fell asleep at 6-6.20 so not ideal. When he woke he was very upset so had to get on with the BT routine.
BT 7.15PM with 9oz milk

Does anyone have any thoughts if I should shift his activity times to more or less? Should i post this back on the naps board?