In a mess - not sure what to do

[Hayleys]

Hi
My DD2 will be 15 months next week. Up until now this has generally been her EASY for about the last 6 weeks where we have been having one nap.

WU between 5 and 6 am
Nap 11:00 (will sleep different nap lengths but usually no more than an hour and a half and will often wake at some point in the nap and I have to resettle her).
BT 6 -6:45 depending on when she falls asleep.

Right now I'm finding that I am struggling to get an 11 hr night out of her so her WU is early. We even had a 4:15 wake up one day last week - yikes!

On Saturday she seemed tired so I thought I'd try two naps. After waking at 5:30 am, she fell asleep at 9:30 am but was awake at 10:15 am. I tried to AP an afternoon nap in the car but she was hysterical so I had to give up. I was scarred to put her down any earlier so still aimed for 6 pm bt. She slept reasonably well but woke for an HR and a half at around 4 am but then woke at 7:15.am

This was then the Easy for the day:
WU 7:15
Nap 12:45 - 2:15 ish she woke after 40 mins
BT 7 but didn't fall asleep until 8 pm

Then had a difficult night with 3 night wakes and she seemed in a light sleep. She woke at 5:30 am.

Today I have not known what to do so  have just given her a nap at 11:30 and she was up at 1 pm. Again she woke after 40 mins and I APed her back to sleep in my arms.

I'm just not sure where to go from here? She is teething 2 molars right now but my gut is telling me that her routine needs changing. I'm becoming increasingly anxious as the clocks go back in two weeks and this doesn't work in our favour at all. Also in the past she had been an independent sleeper (a thumb sucker) although I have not done any specific sleep training with her. As she is teething I'm very reluctant to do this right now.

Any advice greatly appreciated?

[Lindsay27]

I would try pushing the nap out hun.  I realize the morning A time is long, but I think the early wake ups are contributed to the early nap, and a 40min naps tends to be UT.  If you can get nap to 12 and hold for a good week or so that WU might change, and then you might be able to push the nap further (goal of 12:30-2/2:30 nap).  If you don't think she can make it to 12 all in one shot, try pushing in 15min increments, but the faster you push the better.  You will likely see a lot of OT for the fist few days until that WU starts to move, so just be prepared for that 😊

[Hayleys]

Hi

Thank you so much for you advice!
Since your reply I've been putting her down later for her nap and this has been our EASY for the last few days:

WU 5:30 am
Nap 12- 1:30 (She didn't wake up during this nap which is a step forward but she was tired when she woke)
BT I started trying to settle her at 6 pm but she didn't fall asleep until 7:30 pm!!

During the night she woke at 8:45 pm but quickly went back to sleep. Also she stirred for her usual bottle of milk at 11:30 pm. (Planning on weaning her from this soon). Then she woke at 4:35 am and didn't fall back to sleep until 5:30 am and then slept until 6:15 am

So it's only been one day that her nap has been at 12 pm. She is tired at the moment but she is managing with it. I'm just not sure what time I should set her bedtime for?

The day I first posted I tried to settle her at 6 pm and she fell asleep at 6:35 pm which after a 5:30 am WU made a 13 hr day.

Last night though as she took so long to sleep she had a 13 and a half hour day. Maybe she took so long to sleep due to being OT. What do you think I should do with bedtime?

[Hayleys]

The other thing is although she had a very short amount of night sleep due to wakes her actual wake up time was later at 6:15 am. Should I still be doing a 12 pm nap when this happens?

[Hayleys]

Hi
Just wanted to update you. So this was our Easy yesterday:

WU: 6:15
Nap 12- 1:30 pm (she did wake after 40 mins or so and I APed her back to sleep
BT 6 pm (asleep at 6:40)

Was in a very light sleep and woke briefly at 9:15 pm. Again at 12 pm and had bottle settled down quickly. Woke at 3:30 am and didn't fall back to sleep until 5:15 ish.

WU 6:05 am

So as you can see she is waking a lot in the night probably due to OT. She is coping though and I feel I can get her to the 12 pm nap. Her day length was shorter yesterday. Do you think I'm doing the right thing with a 6 ish bedtime and keeping her nap at 12 pm even though she is waking a bit later (although having awful nights).

[Lindsay27]

Do you find she has generally been lower sleep needs?

Honestly, I think she needs more A time in the morning - for example my DD wakes at 6:30 and goes for nap at 1pm - she is 22 months and has been doing this routine for a good few months now.  If you feel you can push it past 12 I'd try that.  The fact that she's waking 40mins into the nap suggests UT. 

[Hayleys]

Hi

Thank you! Yes I think her sleep needs are quite low and again she woke today at the 45 min mark, although I did manage her to get to sleep again but only for another 45 mins. She did seem tired beforehand though but it's probably because of such a wakeful night. Do you think I should try for 12:30?
How about bedtime, any thoughts?

[Lindsay27]

You could definitely try for 12:30 and hold for a few days - that might eliminate that 40/45min waking and get her to sleep right through a nap/have it be solid/more restful.  I think once that happens the nights will follow.  For bedtime, I probably wouldn't try anything before 6:30pm.  It seems like she's not going down before then anyway.  If she sleeps through a nap then I'd just go right for 7pm.

[Hayleys]

Oh thank you - that's so helpful! I'll do that and keep you posted! X

[Hayleys]

Hi! So below is our Easy for yesterday and also what happened in the night:

WU 6:05 am
12 pm (woke after 45 mins Aped back to sleep after 10 mins and woke 1:45)
BT 6:15 pm but didn't fall asleep until
7:15 pm

Night:
8:40 pm woke  but quickly back to sleep
10:30 pm woke but quickly back to sleep
12:pm stirred for usual bottle straight back to sleep
4 am could here her sucking her thumb trying to get back to sleep
5:15 became upset from not going back to sleep
6:30 am fell back to sleep but only slept lightly for about 15 mins or so when DD1 woke us up.
WU 6:50 am she was a little teary but soon cheered up

I really did not know what was the best thing to do after that night and wake up time. I thought I'd just try and gage her mood and see how she got on. She did seem tired but was ok with it also. As she had some sleep at 6:30 am I thought I'd try a 12:30 pm nap.

Nap 12:30 (but woke after 35 mins!! Immediately went back to sleep though and woke at 2:15 but she woke at 2 but then fell back to sleep.

I'm finding that she is having short night wakes in the early evening but then a long one around 3 or 4 am. This makes her wake up time fairly varied therefore her A time does differ. Also today I managed to get her back off for a very small sleep but only just. Should I stick to a time and not try anymore despite the wake up time being super early? Also would her WU time be 4 am? She wasn't entirely awake but when she is in a deep sleep she stops sucking her thumb so she was partly awake really.

Ugh!! Just feeling quite lost right now and and I'm also aware that the clicks go back in two weeks - eek!

[Lindsay27]

Nap 12:30 (but woke after 35 mins!! Immediately went back to sleep though and woke at 2:15 but she woke at 2 but then fell back to sleep.

So I think what's happened is the 35min WU was OT (likely from the NWs), but as you noticed, OT naps are often fairly easy to resettle.  I would try to hold the nap at 12:30 for a good week.  You will likely experience some OT, but after a few days her body clock with adjust to that nap time.  Bouncing the nap around is going to confuse her - so just stick to 1 time for a few days.  Once it settles she'll hopefully be able to sleep through that nap and get a good solid sleep  

For BT tonight, I'd probably just go for 7pm as it seems like she's fighting the early BTs anyway.

[Hayleys]

Hi

Thank you so much for you response!!

My DD2 will now be 16 months next Monday. I held the 12:30 pm nap for a week like you said and was about to update you and then she got ill with a terrible cough and cold. It took us a few weeks to recover and get back on track and I was then able to get back to our EASY. Things have been quite good. This has roughly been our EASY:

WU 5:30
S 12:30 - 2 pm
BT anytime between 7:15 and 8 pm (mainly 7:30 pm)

Our nights have been good and we've even managed to drop that night feed. However from 3:30 am ish she gets into a very light sleep. She sucks her thumb and I'm not sure how much sleep she is getting until she wakes. The past few days she has been really tired in the mornings which is making me think that she isn't getting much.

Generally is is still waking around the 40 min mark for her naps but over the weekend she did manage to sleep for an HR and a half without me settling her. However I'm noticing that she seems more tired after her nap and it is taking her longer to be ready to start playing etc.

What prompted me into posting today is that she actually fell asleep on me at 11am this morning and is currently asleep. This was her EASY from yesterday:

WU 5:30
Nap 12:30 - 2:30 (she woke after 40 mins and I had to resettle her. I then had to wake her after at the 2 hr mark due to the school run. This long sleep has never happened before.
BT 7:15 pm she was tired and settled more quickly than usual.
Night unsettled from 3:30 am
WU 5 am

I really don't want to start going back to early wake up again. I'm perplexed as to what's going on. Any thoughts? I'm aware that her day is quite long too.