Author Topic: 4.5 months still not extending naps  (Read 146 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mommykay410

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: US
4.5 months still not extending naps
« on: October 11, 2017, 15:45:02 pm »
I am at my wits end with DS's nap issues.   >:( :'(  Since 3 weeks old I have been putting him down awake, he falls asleep on his own, I don't rock him or nurse him to sleep, he doesn't take a pacifier.   Yet he still cannot make it through the 40 minute transition on his own for naps.  There are rare occasions when he does, like a few days the other week only for his morning nap, but never for his afternoon nap.  And now yesterday and today I've had to go in at 40/45 mins when he starts crying and am stuck there patting while he cries for over 30 minutes without a solid sign that he is going to settle back to sleep.  I used to just have to pat for a few minutes and he would settle back down to sleep for the rest of his nap.  He generally wakes up in the morning around 7:15/7:30, has an A time of around 2hr10min, sometimes a little longer, naps for 1.5 hrs (2 only if I'm really lucky), repeat for afternoon, then a 25 min catnap around 5/5:30, nurse for bed at 6:45 and asleep for the night by 7:30/7:45 if he is having trouble settling.  He had been having issues with night wakings for over a month, but finally got back to one waking the past few nights, and even slept straight through the night before last.  I'm not sure what else I can do to get him to make it past that 40 minute mark, but I cannot take this any longer.  I feel like this 4 month sleep regression has been lasting for 4 months.   :-\

Update: His nap this morning was from 9:15-10:25ish with patting from 10 on.  I put him down at 12:45 for his afternoon nap and he fell asleep by 12:50, was up crying at 1:20 (obviously was OT from too long of an A, but I tried to push in hopes of being tired enough to sleep through the transition) I went up to pat at 1:20, tried to put on the white noise to help but nothing was doing it, so I gave in and picked him up at 1:50 and tried to rock him back to sleep (which I haven't done in months because he just looks at me with eyes wide open when I pick him up, so I've only been shh/patting him for months now) but he did fall back to sleep thankfully and I was able to lay him down in his crib at 2:30 when I was fairly sure he was sound asleep.  I'm glad I was able to get him back to sleep, but I cannot be rocking him back to sleep for any naps because I have 2 yo DD to tend to, and he almost always wakes her up from her nap early with his crying at transition.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 19:40:40 pm by mommykay410 »

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 467
  • Posts: 20736
  • Location: UK
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 11:56:02 am »
Hi there
Have you ried keeping the white noise running throughout the nap rather than turning it back on after he wakes mid-nap?
Have you tried (consistently) W2S where you go in and begin soothing with shush/pat or your usual method before he stirs or wakes rather than waiting for him to wake fully and cry out before going in?

The few days when he slept longer for his morning nap without you needing to resettle him, are you aware of anything that was different that day or the day or night before?  had he been more active? less active? had you had new toys or new guests to the house? Was the room warmer/cooler?  Had he slept differently in the night?  Was there perhaps anything different about you on those days?


Offline mommykay410

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: US
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 15:00:23 pm »
Hi creations,
Thanks for your reply.  The only thing I haven't gotten around to trying yet that I should is W2S.  Is he not old enough yet to do the version where I slightly rouse him before he does on his own to help him connect cycles?  I'm afraid that if I go in and start shh/patting him before he starts to wake that I will be stuck there even longer or end up waking him too much if he would've possibly slept through on his own.  I think the white noise actually is too stimulating for him, so I'm not sure that I want to use it for the whole nap.  It seemed to work one day when I left it on a quiet volume instead of me having to shh for so long so I was able to leave the room, but yesterday when I had it running instead of my shhing while I was patting him it didn't do anything other than cause him to look around for where the noise was coming from and make him cry more. 

I can't seem to find a pattern with the days that he was able to sleep through. Some nights were horrible, other nights had one waking.  Actually the two days that he slept through for both of his naps were after the nights that he woke up at least 4 times.  Those days he had an A of 2 hrs before his nap, but he is definitely up from that now.  Some days he seems to be able to handle a longer A than others.  His sleepy cues are getting kind of hard to read some days.  Like yesterday he wasn't showing any sleepy cues and I kept him up too long and then he was crying at 30 mins and hard to resettle.  I just put him down for his nap now after 2hr20min of A time, so we'll see how it goes. 

Update:  For his morning nap today he fell asleep at 9:45/50 and I had to pat him at 10:20 and 10:30 and he slept til 11:20.  This patting was how it usually is, fairly short and I can leave the room, not like yesterday's disaster.  For his afternoon nap he went down at 1:35 and then at 2:05 cried quick but stopped before I got to his room and then was kicking his feet and blowing bubbles to himself for about 10 minutes before starting to mantra cry and then I went in at 2:20 to pat him, thankfully back asleep by 2:30.  He has never woken fully like that in the middle of naps before, so I'm guessing we have hit the 4 month regression on the head right now, even though I feel like we've been in it for weeks already.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 19:48:24 pm by mommykay410 »

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 467
  • Posts: 20736
  • Location: UK
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 10:50:04 am »
I'm afraid that if I go in and start shh/patting him before he starts to wake that I will be stuck there even longer or end up waking him too much if he would've possibly slept through on his own.
- You only do the W2S in cycles so you do it 3 days and hold off day 4 to see how he goes alone, if he wakes and cries on day 4 you resettle however you can then do another cycle of 3 days again. And repeat until he's got it.  At the moment you never know if he's going to do a long nap or not, mostly not, with this training you would (hopefully) at the end of it know that he was good for a full nap and you are free to your Y time instead of always being on edge.

- The method where you disturb LO is most suited to a LO who already knows how to connect cycles alone and is used for habitual waking which is a bit different to this.  Your LO doesn't seem to have learned he is supposed to sleep longer naps.  Linking cycles at night is different to linking in the day so it doesn't count that he can do a longer stretch at night.  The method of disturbing is likely to go something like this:
S for 30 min - W2S disturb - comes out of deep sleep and needs to begin a new cycle - doesn't know how - cries/calls for you - you go in to resettle.  Now you've been in twice and he slept even shorter than normal.
On a short nap of 40 mins there just isn't the time to do the disturbance W2S plus he still doesn't know what to do when he wakes or moves into the light sleep.
This method is better for older babies who know how to transition and for babies who find patting or a firm hand disturbing instead of soothing.  It's good for LOs who are sleeping say 1hr 20 instead of 2hrs as a new cycle can be kick started at around 1hr 10.

With the patting through the transition W2S method you are teaching him that he is safe at the 40 min mark and there is no need to fully wake to call for you.  The method is to begin 10 min before the usual wake up time and to continue until the next deep sleep state is reached. However if you are concerned about going in at 30 mins (which is what you'd have to do with the disturbing method anyway) and patting how about go in at 30 min and just ready yourself?  I have done this with mine and it worked great.  Go in at 30 min, quietly, sit by the cot, put your hand close, very close, but not on him.  Watch closely.  As soon as you see him begin to stir or breathing change (coming to lighter sleep and waking) put your hand on and begin shush/pat (the way you usually would), use as much as is needed and keep going until he is fully asleep. If it is only 5 mins then great - leave. If it takes longer then it takes longer.  The thing with this method is that the reassurance comes very very fast, no need to call out for help/mummy as you are already there.

I know you are hesitant, just try for one nap each day (the same nap each day) for a cycle or 2 and see what happens.

If the white noise isn't helpful just leave it off.  You do not necessarily need to shush at the W2S either - do what you feel he needs as you know him best, either shush/pat or just pat or even just a firm hand with a reassuring key phrase if you ever use one, "it's okay, sleepy time, go to sleep".


Offline mommykay410

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: US
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 16:25:03 pm »
Thanks for the W2S overview.  I think I will try it starting tomorrow so that I have backup with DD over the weekend.  Of course now this morning he was able to sleep through the transition.  He woke up at 7:45 this morning, went down for nap around 10/10:05, and I did hear him rustling a bit around 10:45 but I'm not sure if he awakened fully like yesterday afternoon or not because I didn't look closely at the monitor, but he stayed quiet/asleep so no patting needed!  I'm sure it won't be the same for his afternoon nap since he always has issues with that one.  I'd like to use his afternoon nap to try W2S on since that's the one he has more consistent issues with, but the time when he usually wakes and needs to be patted is right when my DD also happens to wake (too early) from her nap and cries out quite loudly for me.  So if I'm in his room waiting for him to wake and starting to W2S, I'm likely going to have to run out quick to get her out of bed and get her occupied downstairs so I can go back up to him, which probably won't be very effective for the method.  Hoping I can try it out tomorrow.

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 467
  • Posts: 20736
  • Location: UK
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2017, 10:53:28 am »
Who has the most problem with the nap?  I thought your DS was waking your DD with his mid nap crying?  If your DD is also waking early from nap even without being disturbed by DS maybe you need to go at this on two fronts - get in to her before she usually wakes and disturb her (stroke cheek or give a pat, just enough to make her stir slightly) so that she doesn't wake during the time your DS needs his W2S?


Offline mommykay410

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: US
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 01:26:17 am »
Ha yea I'd say it's a tie between the two of them for naptime.  DD is 2.5 yo and hasn't been giving me more than a half hour most days.  Today finally she slept for over an hour and woke happy instead of crying, but most days she wakes right around 30 minutes crying out for me, and there is no going back to sleep for her.  I'm torn between thinking it's near the end of her naps altogether, or super built up OT.  It's tough to say whether his noise is waking her or if she would have woken on her own those days. 

I didn't get in to to W2S with him today, but he make it through his morning nap until 1hr20min at which point I patting him quick and he continued to sleep for over 2 hours.  For his afternoon nap he woke at 45 mins and I let him go for a bit but then went in to pat and he went back to sleep for a total of just under 2 hours, so we were actually able to drop the evening catnap today which was nice. 

I guess it would be worth a try to do a bit of W2S with her if you think that would still work at her age?  I'm going to try it out on him tomorrow since DH will be home.

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 467
  • Posts: 20736
  • Location: UK
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 10:53:29 am »
I guess it would be worth a try to do a bit of W2S with her if you think that would still work at her age?  I'm going to try it out on him tomorrow since DH will be home.
Do you have another thread for her?  It would be better to keep the two LOs on two different threads to be honest but in brief I'd say yes W2S can still be very helpful at this age.  Some people use W2S with much older kids to help with night sleep.  From the sounds of it she could well be ready to just drop the nap.

You may be making it tricky for yourself trying to work on both LOs naps at the same time though. You could do with timing those naps differently so that you aren't needed in both rooms at once.


Offline mommykay410

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: US
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 13:29:37 pm »
I don't have a thread going for her right now, I've just been dealing it for now.  But I can try to give W2S a go with her and see if it helps.  She seems to go for a while with 30 min naps then have a long one and a good night of sleep to make up for it, then back down again.  The trouble with timing their naps differently is that his always depends on what time he woke from his morning nap.  I guess I can try to get his W2S started and naps hopefully working and then deal with her if she is still doing the same.

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 467
  • Posts: 20736
  • Location: UK
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 19:03:15 pm »
If you W2S his morning nap and get a longer one would that help with the timing so you can do DD in the afternoon perhaps?

For what it's worth it sounds like you're handing the nap drop well for DD, some people find it's okay to go with the flow or lots of short naps and then a long one just letting LO self regulate the sleep.  The difficulty is if she's waking upset so you can't spend that time with DS on his afternoon nap.


Offline mommykay410

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: US
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 02:42:15 am »
Today actually went really well thankfully!  Sometimes I swear just by posting on here it magically makes things get better haha.  I figured I would do the W2S for his afternoon nap just because that's the one he has the most trouble with and almost never sleeps through without patting.  And if I can get him to sleep through that one then I can tend to DD if she wakes from nap or actually get some time to myself if they both can sleep. 

DS slept through his whole morning nap on his own for just under 2 hours.  For his afternoon nap I think he was a bit OT/overstimulated since grandparents were here right before he went down, so I did have to pat him a bit to fall asleep.  But I went in at 25 minutes to do W2S and just put my hand on his chest when I heard him start to stir a bit.  He did open his eyes and sort of fully wake at 30 mins but he didn't make any noises and I could feel him relax as soon as he started breathing heavier.  I kept my hand on him for about 15 mins before leaving and he stayed asleep then for the rest of the 1.5 hr nap.  DD also slept longer for her nap again today, although didn't wake very happy but I don't think that was related to sleep.  But at least he was sleeping during the time she woke up so I was able to comfort her rather than leaving her on the couch with the phone games by herself.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 03:19:14 am by mommykay410 »

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 467
  • Posts: 20736
  • Location: UK
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2017, 20:06:16 pm »
Good day :)

What you describe about the W2S sounds spot on. it doesn't keep them asleep but it does help them stay calm and reassured and move into that next cycle without needing to call for you. If you can do that for a few days you can then go in and just watch, hands off, if he fully wakes and calls get in there with a hand quickly before it escalates.  The continue W2S another few days. I do think this will help and you'll see some progress.


Offline mommykay410

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: US
Re: 4.5 months still not extending naps
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2017, 20:15:44 pm »
Today we are a bit off schedule since he was up 4 times last night and woke up at 7:05 this morning instead of his usual 7:30/45, but he did sleep through his morning nap although it was only 1hr20min.  I did do W2S again for his afternoon nap, which today he did cry out a bit twice but settled right back to sleep with a few pats and a quiet shh.  That nap was only 1hr20min also, so we are working with a short day today for whatever reason.  Hoping he can get back on his normal times tomorrow after a good night sleep tonight *fingers crossed*.