Baby waking at long period during night

[pipkin]

Hello

My child is 6 months old in a week. I have always been fairly strict with her nap times. Her morning nap she always sleeps in her bed and I try where possible for her to sleep in her bed for other naps although sometimes she does sleep in pram/car depending on what we are doing. If she does sleep in car/pram though, I have always made sure she goes down before she is overtired.

She was on quite a consistent 3 naps a day. Once at around 8.30am for 1.5 hours (sometimes this would be 2 hours). Then again at about 12.30pm. This nap she often has shorter for about 45 mins then again at 4/4.30pm for half hour. Her bedtime is at 7pm but I start her routine (book,bath,feed) earlier. She is pretty much always asleep between 7/7.30pm. Over the last week, she seems to be transitioning to two naps a day. The morning one is the same but her afternoon one is often longer (1.5 hours) although then sometimes she will wake up 45 mins later. Then when I try to put her down at 4pm, she doesn’t want to sleep. This is only recently in the last week I would say.

She was a good sleeper and I managed to get her to 11 hours no waking but at around 4/4.5 months, she had a slight sleep regression. For the first few nights she was waking hourly although I think this was linked to a cold. Then it went to two wakings a night at which point I would feed her. Since about a month, she now only wakes really once a night but when she does wake she is awake for 1.5/2 hours and is happily chatting away in her bed. I try to give her food and then put her back in her cot. I was trying to help her settle back to sleep by rocking her gently in her cot but I was finding that this was doing nothing and she would continue to chat away. Now I wait until she tires out and help her sleep by rocking her.


She can self sleep sometimes but I do still feed her before bed and naps. I try to feed her to become drowsy but awake although sometimes she does fall asleep on me.

What do you think is causing these long wakes at night? Should I be doing something differently?

[ginger428]

Hi pipkin and welcome to BW!

It does sound like the 3-2 nap transition, however, we can try shifting her routine to see if it'll help with her night wakes. Usually that is a sign they need more activity time during the day, and/or a reduction in day sleep.

Just want to clarify... she is waking at 6am? and taking the first nap at 8:30? If so, pushing this out to 8:45 might help push the day back so that her second nap falls later in the day and have 2 naps.  during this transition, you'll probably toggle between a short and long pm nap and that dictates whether or not you do an early bedtime or a short (15-20) CN before bedtime.

She might be undertired for her second nap, so a change to 12:45/1:00 could help make that nap longer.
Basically either of these two routines:

WU 6
Nap 1 8:45/9:00 (1.5 hrs)
Nap 2 12:45/1:00 (1.5 hrs)
BT 6:30

WU 6
Nap 1 8:45/9:00 (1.5 hrs)
Nap 2 12:45/1:00 (45mins)
CN 4:30 (20 min)
BT 7:00

Give or take some time depending on her wake up times.

Here is an article regarding the 3-2 and some options.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=246541.0

As for feeding to sleep and rocking... it doesn't seem to be affecting her night sleep badly, but working to reduce this now can help her independent sleep for the latter part of her first year.

[pipkin]

This is so helpful thank you!

I’ll give this a go and let you know how we get on. Thanks for all your advice.

Pippi

[ginger428]

Let us know how it goes! xo

[pipkin]

Hello it’s going well thanks! About a day after I posted this she got ill and ended up with bronchitis so the routine went a bit out the window but since she has been better, it’s got much better. She seemed to be back on three naps for ages but more recently is now doing a longer lunchtime nap so when she does that, I’ve been dropping her third nap. The long periods of being awake at night have seemed to have stopped and she is sleeping a little later in the morning (now waking at 6/6.30am when before it was 4.30/5am). She is also getting better at self sleeping which I think has helped. So at the moment things are looking a lot better! Let’s hope it lasts!!

Quick question though... if she sleeps longer than 1.5 hours for her morning or afternoon nap, would you wake her or let her sleep?

Thanks so much for all your help

[ginger428]

I would probably let the morning one go as long as it does, and depending on that one, figure out the pm one.  Usually I liked to keep the wake up time from the pm nap the same so that there was enough time before bed.

Glad to hear it's going well!

[pipkin]

Hello

I think I spoke too soon unfortunately. She is back to waking really early (4.30 - 5am) and is then wide awake ready to start the day. She sleeps through until then and no matter what I do, she won’t go back to sleep... leave her in cot, feed her etc.

Is that just something I’ll need to get used to with and quite standard for a 7 month old baby or does that suggest to you that there is something not right with her napping? She has two x 1.5 hour naps and we start bedtime routine at 6.15/6.30pm so she is usually asleep by 7/7.15pm?

Thanks

Pippi

[lkat]

Hi Pipkin,

I have the same problem as you with my LO, also 6 months old Before daylight savings she would sleep until 6.45-7.15am. Now she wakes anywhere from 4-6am. I try to go right in with white noise, paci and rub her head for a few seconds. I also try not to expose her to any light or stimulation, and unless she is sounding really hungry or upset I usually leave her until 7am. Its gotten slowly better with those tactics although this am she woke at 5.30 but around 6.30 she went back to sleep for an hour.

I've read on various sleep websites that babies can wake up early due to being OT the day before, getting too much sleep (in naps) the day before, or having a bed time that is too late. I think 4-6am is the period of lightest sleep, when LOs are the most likely to wake up. Its frustrating when you don't know what is causing it and don't know how to fix it

[pipkin]

Hello

Aww thanks for getting in touch. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one going through it!.

My child does sleep a lot during the day if I let her but I usually try to wake her up after she has slept for 1.5 hours but yesterday, to see if it made any difference,  I did leave her to sleep as long as she wanted and the first nap she slept 2 hours 20 mins and the second nap 2 hours. It didn’t make any difference though because she was still awake at 4.30am haha! So regardless of whether I wake her or let her sleep it is early morning starts. In the morning I try to keep her awake until at least 8am so she isn’t using the first nap to supplement any night time sleep she missed out on but now wondering if she is getting up at 4.30am whether that is too long and actually I should put her down earlier.

She has only recently dropped her third nap so bedtime is definitely slightly more over tired than normal but I try to start her routine as soon as I notice she is getting tired and she is usually in bed by just after 6.30pm and asleep by 7pm. I’m too nervous to do this any earlier incase she’ll wake even earlier than she does!

I try to leave her in her cot until she starts crying in the morning and I read somewhere that they could start feeling hungry if they are used to be being fed at that time so yesterday morning I fed her at 4.45am and then this morning at 5am. Tomorrow I’m going to try and hold off until 5.15am Etc etc. I’ve no idea if this will help or even work though! It’s really dark in her room so I don’t think it is light waking her up. I do have a feeling that she may just be one of those babies who doesn’t need any more sleep as she is wide awake and very happy at that time so it isn’t that she seems tired. If that is the case,  I can’t really push her bed time back any later as she is definitely ready for bed when we put her to sleep.

Thanks for your help

[lkat]

Ah I know the struggle all too well  My LO is waking up at 5.30am like clock work.  She does usually go back to sleep (this morning she went back to sleep from 7-7.45 after I fed her) but I know it is is annoying to be up so early. 4.30am is an early start to the day! I also read that feeding them at the same times every day could get them into a habit of being hungry at that time, which is why I try to hold off until 7. I too struggle with when I should put her down for a nap after an early wake up, or whether I should just get her up. I personally try to leave her in her crib in her dark room until 7am, even if i've had to feed her and even if it messes up naps, only because i dont want to further encourage her to wake up early, lol. I can't tell if it's helping or not, it's all been out of whack since daylight savings, grr.

I stumbled across this blog post by a pediatric sleep consultant which I found helpful if you're interested in checking it out! She has lots of good tips about sleep and naps that i've found useful.

http://www.weebeedreaming.com/my-blog/baby-waking-early-help

[pipkin]

Amazing that article is so helpful thank you! I think there are a few things I might be doing wrong.

1) giving in and getting up before 6am so I’m going to do what you suggest and leave her in the dark until that time only getting her out if I think she is hungry but then put her back in her cot again once she has fed. I’m also going to try and hold off the feed moving it back 15 minutes every day in the hope her body starts getting used to being fed later

2) delay nap 2 by 1/2 hour so that there is less of an awake time between when she wakes up and when she goes to bed

Wish me luck! Hope your little one continues to get better with waking up later too. It’s so tiring when they are up so early

[pipkin]

Hello

Sorry to message again but the night wakings are back and i’m not  sure what i’m doing  wrong that is causing them.

Her pattern has changed slightly since I last wrote. She is now 7.5 months old (8 months on 24 December) and this is her general pattern:

Wake up at approx 6.30am (though this does vary if she has only had a short night time waking of  half hour she wakes at 5.30am ready to get up but if she wakes up during the night for 1.5 hours/ 2 hours which is more normal at the moment, this is more likely to be 6.30am)

She is then awake for about 3 hours so would go down at 8.30am (when 5.30am wake up) or 9.30am (if 6.30am wake up)

She sleeps for about 1 hour 15 mins (wake up at 9.45am if the earlier start or 10.45am if the later wake up)

She would then be awake until 1.15pm if the earlier wake up or 1.45/2pm if the later wake up.

She usually sleeps 2 hours then although can sometimes be 1.5 hours (so wake up at 3.15pm or 3.45/4pm)

Bed time now starts at 6.30pm and she is asleep by 7pm ish. She usually then wakes up about 1 hour later and only settles if she has milk.

She then sleeps until about 1am which is when she stays awake for 1.5 or 2 hours. I’ve tried leaving in her cot until she cries in the hope she’ll go back to sleep and also soothin her straight away by either rocking or feeding in the hope she’ll go back to sleep. Sometimes the feeding can get her back down in half hour but more often than not she is awake for a long period of time.

In terms of food she now has three meals a day. She has milk when she wakes up and after each nap. She also sometimes has a top up of milk after lunch and always has milk before bed. She is a breast fed baby and doesn’t take the bottle.

She can self sleep. She always goes down for her nap and gets to sleep on her own but at night she does go to sleep during being breast fed. We have tried the pick up put down method at night but as soon as she gets put down, she cries instantly and gets really upset. It is odd though as during naps she goes down really easily by herself. She has a comfort blanket that she chews on to help her sleep at naps and then I go up and take it away from her when she is asleep so she doesn’t suffocate.

Be grateful if any advice you may have.

Thanks so much

Pippi

[becj86]

Hi, she probably needs more A time first thing in the morning. That 1:15 nap is UT and the long happy NWs are also suggesting the first A time needs a push. I'd go with 3:15 for 3-4 days and then 3:30 for a week and tweak from there. What you're doing with bringing the nap an hour earlier if she wakes earlier is encouraging that. If you decide your ideal WU for the day and do the nap no earlier than 3hr after that, wven if that's 4hr A time, that will encourage her to sleep longer and more solidly.

Have you recently started solids in the evening? Sometimes babies will wake in the night with the new sensation of solids going through their gut.

[pipkin]

Ah perfect, thanks. I’ll try that. Sorry could I check what UT and NW stand for?

Thanks for all your help.

[becj86]

UT = undertired
NW = night waking

Let us know how you go

[pipkin]

Ah perfect - thank you. I’ll let you know how we get on. I’ve put her down a little later this morning and so will see how we do. She woke up after 1 hour 15 mins again but I guess it will take a while for things to change.

In answer to your solid food question, I’ve just been thinking back and I think it probably was about the same time that we started solid food that has caused these long night waking so that could be one of the reasons.

We’ve also been struggling with settling her to sleep at night so we try to get her to sleep for 7pm but the last few nights it has been hard getting her down and she has resisted quite a lot. Last night she didn’t sleep until around 9pm! She seems to just want cuddles and gets very cross being put in her cot. She does have a bit of a cold and we got into a few bad habits when the first of her teeth came through the other week so I think that may be the cause of this.

Thanks for your help. I’ll update you in a few weeks on how I’ve got on

[pipkin]

Hello

We seem to be over the last phase and she is sleeping much better at night only waking once (sometimes twice) for food. We have even had a few full night sleeps but she now seems to be really resisting her afternoon nap. She is nearly 9 months old so i’m sure it isn’t her wanting to drop to one nap a day. What other reasons could it be?

Here is her routine:

6.30am wake and breast feed
7.15/7.30am breakfast
9.30 nap
11am wake up and breast feed
12.30pm lunch
2.15/2.30pm nap
Here she usually wakes up after 20-35 mins, she used to do 1.5 hours!

When she wakes after her second nap she has breast milk. Then dinner at about 5/5.30pm
Bath at 6.30pm
Bed at 7pm

I worried that she may be waking from hunger so today instead of giving her milk after her second nap, I fed her milk after lunch but it didn’t make a difference, she woke after 20 mins. The tears aren’t just crying she sounds really inconsolable.

She manages ok when she wakes up but she does get quite grumpy by bedtime and never eats that much dinner I think because she is tired.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks

Pippi

[becj86]

20min naps can be related to pain - if she's inconsolable, I'd be looking for something that may be causing her pain. Have you introduced a new solid food recently?
They can also be from overstimulation but usually if that's the case, LO's are up and really ready to play at 20min, not crying inconsolably.

30-35min naps tend to be from overtiredness - her A time is reasonable though - it could be longer. Her routine looks good for a 6-7mo but she's taking a good first nap (I presume she is actually sleeping that 1.5hr?) so its reasonable to leave it as is.

[pipkin]

Thanks for your reply!

We haven’t given her any new solids recently but we think her top two teeth may be coming through, although we’ve been thinking that for a while and still nothing!

She cries when I try and comfort her back to sleep and gets really cross but the tears stop as soon as I turn the light on and give up trying to get her back to sleep. The only thing that makes me think it isn’t her teeth is that she doesn’t have any problem with napping in the morning or going to bed at night. Would we have similar tears at these times if it was her teeth?

She was going through a bit of separation anxiety with me a few weeks ago so I wondered if it was because she wanted me to be with her but she has got a bit better with the separation anxiety thing recently. I did manage to get her to sleep for a further hour after she woke up a few days ago but I lay on my bed with her and let her breast feed to sleep which worked. I don’t really want to get her into a habit of doing that though as we’ve not long got out of it and I’m going back to work soon so I have tried not to do that again although it is tempting if it means she gets the rest she needs!

[becj86]

Does she go to sleep ok for that nap? Wonder if you could try increasing the second A time and see if she's just not tired yet? If she's wanting to get up, that could be why.

[pipkin]

Yeah she sleeps well in her first nap - about 1.5 hours.

Ah perfect, I’ll try that. I always worry going any later will mean she isn’t tired for bed. What would you say the latest I should let her wake up for her second nap should be so she is tired for her 7/7.30pm bedtime?

Thanks so much for all your help . I’ve found this forum so helpful for all my worries!

[pipkin]

I tried keeping her up for longer this afternoon... so her awake time was 4 hours but she woke up again after 30 minutes crying. She went down easily though so I think she was tired.

Could it be that she just doesn’t need that much sleep anymore?

[pipkin]

Ooh just another update.

I took her downstairs after her nap to feed her and she fell asleep on me.

I have been cutting back on some of the breast feeding during the day and replacing with snacks because i’m Trying to prepare her for when I go back to work. It hasn’t been a huge cut back, just a morning feed after breakfast and a top up feed after lunch. I still feed her quite a lot: when she wakes, after nap 1, after nap 2 and at bed time.

Could it be linked to weaning? Perhaps I have cut back too much and she needs the comfort of having me around? I don’t think it can be hunger because she hasn’t had lunch that long before her nap.

Thanks

[becj86]

I always worry going any later will mean she isn’t tired for bed. What would you say the latest I should let her wake up for her second nap should be so she is tired for her 7/7.30pm bedtime?

Some LO's do fine with a shorter A time to bed. It really depends on how ingrained the 7:30 BT is (some babies develop this body clock that has an unshakeable BT and they'll go to bed for the night almost regardless of how recently they woke), how long she has slept and how long her A times have been through the day. Bit of trial and error will help you get to know your LO's taste.

I tried keeping her up for longer this afternoon... so her awake time was 4 hours but she woke up again after 30 minutes crying. She went down easily though so I think she was tired.

That's a lot longer than 3:15... that's an OT nap - doesn't mean she can't cope with those 4hr, just possibly she's not used to it. Any luck resettling? If not, perhaps try again and just be ready to resettle.

How old is she now? Her sleep needs will reduce as time goes on and one nap will get shorter as she moves towards one nap (don't worry, this process take ~6 months.

Could it be linked to weaning? Perhaps I have cut back too much and she needs the comfort of having me around?

Yes, it could be this. Certainly its nice for us to feel they're ready to go to daycare and they'll be ok without us. However, when we're there and not offering, they can feel that we're withdrawing or something - DS did a similar thing when I tried don't offer, don't refuse to wean though he was a bit older. When she's at daycare, she will work out how things work there and they will be different from home, so its ok to still offer at home and know she'll be ok at daycare.

[pipkin]

Hello

She is 9 months now. Yeah we’re still having trouble with the second nap. Yesterday she only slept for 15 mins and woke up really upset. We tried to settle her but she didn’t stop crying and was arching her back so I got her up and gave her some breast milk and then she fell asleep on me for 45 mins.

It seems to be linked to breast milk but she is using it as a way to get to sleep. I’m pretty sure she isn’t hungry as she eats well at lunch and the other day I gave her a yoghurt for a snack just before bedtime just to make sure she wasn’t hungry. I could try feeding her before she goes to sleep as she usually goes down about 2.30pm? Maybe I’m wrong and perhaps she is hungry but for milk rather than a snack? Or maybe she needs the comfort? Although I did try a day when I gave her lunch and then breast milk to top her up and she still woke up but perhaps if I try feeding her before naptime and then take her up?

I’ve tried a few awake times prior to the nap: 3 hours, 3 hours 15 mins, 3 hours 30 mins, 3 hours 45 mins and 4 hours but all of them seem to still make her have a short nap.

I’m sure she isn’t one of those babies who wants to drop her second nap early because she is always ready for bed about 3 hours/ 3 hours 30 mins after she wakes up in the morning and wouldn’t be able I cope at the moment with that being pushed later. Interestingly she would still sleep 1.5 hours even if I put her down 2.5 hours after she wakes up in the morning (which I had to do the other week as we needed to pop out so I put her down early and it didn’t affect her napping).

Thanks so much for all your help

Pippi

[becj86]

The age of separation anxiety!! It could well be a combination of that and the change of milk feeds.

I’m sure she isn’t one of those babies who wants to drop her second nap early because she is always ready for bed about 3 hours/ 3 hours 30 mins after she wakes up in the morning and wouldn’t be able I cope at the moment with that being pushed later.

This can be a habit thing - is she still sleeping solidly through the early hours of the morning?

This is not really an age at which you're going to get two 1.5hr naps unless you've an extraordinarily sleepy baby (like didn't drop to 2 naps until 8 months type sleepy). If you're aiming to get that second nap to be 1.5hr, I think you're going to be disappointed regardless of the A time you try and you could jeopardise your night sleep. When you say these naps are always short, were any of them 45min-1hr? If so, stick with that as your A time for a week and see if that settles.

[pipkin]

Hello

We’ve had a bit of a breakthrough! On Sunday we had a bad day and she was very upset when she went down for her nap. It took half hour of comforting and her screaming and eventually she fell asleep, I think exhausted from the tears. She then slept for 1.5 hours and I had to wake her!

The next two days I have been feeding her after 3 hours 40 mins awake time. Then putting her down. She gets to sleep in about 5 mins and sleeps for 1 hour! It has made her evenings better because she isn’t overtired and she is sleeping better at night. Fingers crossed it continues!

Thank you so much for your help - I so appreciate it!

[becj86]

Glad things are better it sounds like you could push those A times a bit more yet - 1hr is still an UT nap.