Baby waking at long period during night

[pipkin]

Hello

My child is 6 months old in a week. I have always been fairly strict with her nap times. Her morning nap she always sleeps in her bed and I try where possible for her to sleep in her bed for other naps although sometimes she does sleep in pram/car depending on what we are doing. If she does sleep in car/pram though, I have always made sure she goes down before she is overtired.

She was on quite a consistent 3 naps a day. Once at around 8.30am for 1.5 hours (sometimes this would be 2 hours). Then again at about 12.30pm. This nap she often has shorter for about 45 mins then again at 4/4.30pm for half hour. Her bedtime is at 7pm but I start her routine (book,bath,feed) earlier. She is pretty much always asleep between 7/7.30pm. Over the last week, she seems to be transitioning to two naps a day. The morning one is the same but her afternoon one is often longer (1.5 hours) although then sometimes she will wake up 45 mins later. Then when I try to put her down at 4pm, she doesn’t want to sleep. This is only recently in the last week I would say.

She was a good sleeper and I managed to get her to 11 hours no waking but at around 4/4.5 months, she had a slight sleep regression. For the first few nights she was waking hourly although I think this was linked to a cold. Then it went to two wakings a night at which point I would feed her. Since about a month, she now only wakes really once a night but when she does wake she is awake for 1.5/2 hours and is happily chatting away in her bed. I try to give her food and then put her back in her cot. I was trying to help her settle back to sleep by rocking her gently in her cot but I was finding that this was doing nothing and she would continue to chat away. Now I wait until she tires out and help her sleep by rocking her.


She can self sleep sometimes but I do still feed her before bed and naps. I try to feed her to become drowsy but awake although sometimes she does fall asleep on me.

What do you think is causing these long wakes at night? Should I be doing something differently?

[ginger428]

Hi pipkin and welcome to BW!

It does sound like the 3-2 nap transition, however, we can try shifting her routine to see if it'll help with her night wakes. Usually that is a sign they need more activity time during the day, and/or a reduction in day sleep.

Just want to clarify... she is waking at 6am? and taking the first nap at 8:30? If so, pushing this out to 8:45 might help push the day back so that her second nap falls later in the day and have 2 naps.  during this transition, you'll probably toggle between a short and long pm nap and that dictates whether or not you do an early bedtime or a short (15-20) CN before bedtime.

She might be undertired for her second nap, so a change to 12:45/1:00 could help make that nap longer.
Basically either of these two routines:

WU 6
Nap 1 8:45/9:00 (1.5 hrs)
Nap 2 12:45/1:00 (1.5 hrs)
BT 6:30

WU 6
Nap 1 8:45/9:00 (1.5 hrs)
Nap 2 12:45/1:00 (45mins)
CN 4:30 (20 min)
BT 7:00

Give or take some time depending on her wake up times.

Here is an article regarding the 3-2 and some options.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=246541.0

As for feeding to sleep and rocking... it doesn't seem to be affecting her night sleep badly, but working to reduce this now can help her independent sleep for the latter part of her first year.

[pipkin]

This is so helpful thank you!

I’ll give this a go and let you know how we get on. Thanks for all your advice.

Pippi

[ginger428]

Let us know how it goes! xo

[pipkin]

Hello it’s going well thanks! About a day after I posted this she got ill and ended up with bronchitis so the routine went a bit out the window but since she has been better, it’s got much better. She seemed to be back on three naps for ages but more recently is now doing a longer lunchtime nap so when she does that, I’ve been dropping her third nap. The long periods of being awake at night have seemed to have stopped and she is sleeping a little later in the morning (now waking at 6/6.30am when before it was 4.30/5am). She is also getting better at self sleeping which I think has helped. So at the moment things are looking a lot better! Let’s hope it lasts!!

Quick question though... if she sleeps longer than 1.5 hours for her morning or afternoon nap, would you wake her or let her sleep?

Thanks so much for all your help

[ginger428]

I would probably let the morning one go as long as it does, and depending on that one, figure out the pm one.  Usually I liked to keep the wake up time from the pm nap the same so that there was enough time before bed.

Glad to hear it's going well!

[pipkin]

Hello

I think I spoke too soon unfortunately. She is back to waking really early (4.30 - 5am) and is then wide awake ready to start the day. She sleeps through until then and no matter what I do, she won’t go back to sleep... leave her in cot, feed her etc.

Is that just something I’ll need to get used to with and quite standard for a 7 month old baby or does that suggest to you that there is something not right with her napping? She has two x 1.5 hour naps and we start bedtime routine at 6.15/6.30pm so she is usually asleep by 7/7.15pm?

Thanks

Pippi

[lkat]

Hi Pipkin,

I have the same problem as you with my LO, also 6 months old Before daylight savings she would sleep until 6.45-7.15am. Now she wakes anywhere from 4-6am. I try to go right in with white noise, paci and rub her head for a few seconds. I also try not to expose her to any light or stimulation, and unless she is sounding really hungry or upset I usually leave her until 7am. Its gotten slowly better with those tactics although this am she woke at 5.30 but around 6.30 she went back to sleep for an hour.

I've read on various sleep websites that babies can wake up early due to being OT the day before, getting too much sleep (in naps) the day before, or having a bed time that is too late. I think 4-6am is the period of lightest sleep, when LOs are the most likely to wake up. Its frustrating when you don't know what is causing it and don't know how to fix it

[pipkin]

Hello

Aww thanks for getting in touch. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one going through it!.

My child does sleep a lot during the day if I let her but I usually try to wake her up after she has slept for 1.5 hours but yesterday, to see if it made any difference,  I did leave her to sleep as long as she wanted and the first nap she slept 2 hours 20 mins and the second nap 2 hours. It didn’t make any difference though because she was still awake at 4.30am haha! So regardless of whether I wake her or let her sleep it is early morning starts. In the morning I try to keep her awake until at least 8am so she isn’t using the first nap to supplement any night time sleep she missed out on but now wondering if she is getting up at 4.30am whether that is too long and actually I should put her down earlier.

She has only recently dropped her third nap so bedtime is definitely slightly more over tired than normal but I try to start her routine as soon as I notice she is getting tired and she is usually in bed by just after 6.30pm and asleep by 7pm. I’m too nervous to do this any earlier incase she’ll wake even earlier than she does!

I try to leave her in her cot until she starts crying in the morning and I read somewhere that they could start feeling hungry if they are used to be being fed at that time so yesterday morning I fed her at 4.45am and then this morning at 5am. Tomorrow I’m going to try and hold off until 5.15am Etc etc. I’ve no idea if this will help or even work though! It’s really dark in her room so I don’t think it is light waking her up. I do have a feeling that she may just be one of those babies who doesn’t need any more sleep as she is wide awake and very happy at that time so it isn’t that she seems tired. If that is the case,  I can’t really push her bed time back any later as she is definitely ready for bed when we put her to sleep.

Thanks for your help

[lkat]

Ah I know the struggle all too well  My LO is waking up at 5.30am like clock work.  She does usually go back to sleep (this morning she went back to sleep from 7-7.45 after I fed her) but I know it is is annoying to be up so early. 4.30am is an early start to the day! I also read that feeding them at the same times every day could get them into a habit of being hungry at that time, which is why I try to hold off until 7. I too struggle with when I should put her down for a nap after an early wake up, or whether I should just get her up. I personally try to leave her in her crib in her dark room until 7am, even if i've had to feed her and even if it messes up naps, only because i dont want to further encourage her to wake up early, lol. I can't tell if it's helping or not, it's all been out of whack since daylight savings, grr.

I stumbled across this blog post by a pediatric sleep consultant which I found helpful if you're interested in checking it out! She has lots of good tips about sleep and naps that i've found useful.

http://www.weebeedreaming.com/my-blog/baby-waking-early-help

[pipkin]

Amazing that article is so helpful thank you! I think there are a few things I might be doing wrong.

1) giving in and getting up before 6am so I’m going to do what you suggest and leave her in the dark until that time only getting her out if I think she is hungry but then put her back in her cot again once she has fed. I’m also going to try and hold off the feed moving it back 15 minutes every day in the hope her body starts getting used to being fed later

2) delay nap 2 by 1/2 hour so that there is less of an awake time between when she wakes up and when she goes to bed

Wish me luck! Hope your little one continues to get better with waking up later too. It’s so tiring when they are up so early

[pipkin]

Hello

Sorry to message again but the night wakings are back and i’m not  sure what i’m doing  wrong that is causing them.

Her pattern has changed slightly since I last wrote. She is now 7.5 months old (8 months on 24 December) and this is her general pattern:

Wake up at approx 6.30am (though this does vary if she has only had a short night time waking of  half hour she wakes at 5.30am ready to get up but if she wakes up during the night for 1.5 hours/ 2 hours which is more normal at the moment, this is more likely to be 6.30am)

She is then awake for about 3 hours so would go down at 8.30am (when 5.30am wake up) or 9.30am (if 6.30am wake up)

She sleeps for about 1 hour 15 mins (wake up at 9.45am if the earlier start or 10.45am if the later wake up)

She would then be awake until 1.15pm if the earlier wake up or 1.45/2pm if the later wake up.

She usually sleeps 2 hours then although can sometimes be 1.5 hours (so wake up at 3.15pm or 3.45/4pm)

Bed time now starts at 6.30pm and she is asleep by 7pm ish. She usually then wakes up about 1 hour later and only settles if she has milk.

She then sleeps until about 1am which is when she stays awake for 1.5 or 2 hours. I’ve tried leaving in her cot until she cries in the hope she’ll go back to sleep and also soothin her straight away by either rocking or feeding in the hope she’ll go back to sleep. Sometimes the feeding can get her back down in half hour but more often than not she is awake for a long period of time.

In terms of food she now has three meals a day. She has milk when she wakes up and after each nap. She also sometimes has a top up of milk after lunch and always has milk before bed. She is a breast fed baby and doesn’t take the bottle.

She can self sleep. She always goes down for her nap and gets to sleep on her own but at night she does go to sleep during being breast fed. We have tried the pick up put down method at night but as soon as she gets put down, she cries instantly and gets really upset. It is odd though as during naps she goes down really easily by herself. She has a comfort blanket that she chews on to help her sleep at naps and then I go up and take it away from her when she is asleep so she doesn’t suffocate.

Be grateful if any advice you may have.

Thanks so much

Pippi

[becj86]

Hi, she probably needs more A time first thing in the morning. That 1:15 nap is UT and the long happy NWs are also suggesting the first A time needs a push. I'd go with 3:15 for 3-4 days and then 3:30 for a week and tweak from there. What you're doing with bringing the nap an hour earlier if she wakes earlier is encouraging that. If you decide your ideal WU for the day and do the nap no earlier than 3hr after that, wven if that's 4hr A time, that will encourage her to sleep longer and more solidly.

Have you recently started solids in the evening? Sometimes babies will wake in the night with the new sensation of solids going through their gut.

[pipkin]

Ah perfect, thanks. I’ll try that. Sorry could I check what UT and NW stand for?

Thanks for all your help.

[becj86]

UT = undertired
NW = night waking

Let us know how you go