Starting EASY - 4 week old

[Mumofboys17]

Hi everyone

My ds2 is 4 weeks old, and because we had such good results with EASY with ds1 we are keen to implement it again. It's a bit more tricky this time because I now have a 21 month old who needs attention as well!

We didn't start EASY with DS1 until he was at least 3 months however it was relatively easy as he was pretty much eating every 3 hours anyway, we just had to work on sleep.

Anyway, I am keen to start implementing a routine with ds2, I know it's still early and there will ve dats it all goes wrong but if there are things I can put in place now I am keen to do so.

The main issues we currently have are that when he wakes in the morning he is not so keen on young back to sleep until lunchtime-ish, he will doze in our arms but as soon as he is put down in his Moses basket he wakes up (he sleeps very well in their at other times). I expect him to have some awake time but for a newborn it seems too long. I've dvd trued walking him to see if if makes a difference but GD just wajes up when I stop or he stays awake for most if the walk! We then have the opposite in the afternoon when he pretty much sleeps all afternoon and falls asleep straight after his feed, then goes in the moses basjet and sleeps soundly until his next feed! Evenings are hit and miss sometimes he will go in the Moses basket, other times he will be awaje or fussy. He's not too bad over night, generally waking every 3 hours and going back in his Moses basket. The last few nights he has woken after his midnight/1am feed due to difficulty passing wind. He also has silent reflux but is in gaviscon which seems to have helped.

He takes between 4-5oz per feed, and I would estimate he is around 9.5lb now at 4 weeks.

As he is still young I'm not sure where to start, ideally I'd like him to have roughly the same feed times each day as at the moment we are a bit all over the place - if ges been awake a while he wants his feed early which then throws the rest if the day out. We've been trying to implant a dream feed around 10pm but often his last feed falls around 9 so dreamfeed is not working. I'm not sure if we should start implementing a bedtime this early?

I'd also like him to get more sleep in the mornings so the day is more balanced, afternoons are great as he is pretty mych asleep all the time but if it was spread across the day it may help with giving my other LO attention.

Any ideas or thoughts would be much appreciated

[creations]

Welcome back to BW forums

I started EASY with mine at 4 wks (well a few days over 4wks) so I personally think it's a great time to start!  of course it is totally different having a second LO though, I was very much able to dedicate all my time to my only child.  I'm sure you know to take it easy and go with the flow a bit more with number 2.

I wonder if the gaviscon is helping enough with the silent reflux?  Many people here have experience only temporary relief from the reflux symptoms with gavi then it seems to stop working. You might want to try some other meds, and tilting his moses basket may help with his refusal to go in there at certain times. It could be that he waits until he is super tired before willingly sleeping in there if it is flat.

I think with 2 LOs I would look at how you need/want the day to go. See where it might be more useful to have sling or pram naps rather than trying to stay home all day every day, work the routine around toddler groups if needed, but try to plan out a consistent routine that your LO2 can learn.  One nap per day in the cot/moses is worth aiming for and it looks like you already do this.

[Mumofboys17]

Thanks creations for your reply.

My main concern is how awake he is during the morning with little sleep but then sleeping all afternoon, should I be trying to get him to have a sleep after every feed, or kind of go with it until he is older and see what happens?

Also I'd like to do a 6.30-6.30 day if possible - however I'm not sure how to start implementing it as he is having a feed anywhere between 5am and 6am at the moment so can't feed again at 6.30am as its too close. Any ideas?

[creations]

should I be trying to get him to have a sleep after every feed,

Ideally he should have a feed after waking rather than just before going to sleep although if this isn't possible you would follow his feed routine (3hrs or a little earlier if he needs it) regardless of whether he slept or not.  Equally you don't automatically feed after a short nap if the 3hrs (or a little shorter) has not passed as the feeds may not then be full ones.
It's a little messy but possibly to track E and A/S separately throughout the day, checking for any upcoming clashes so that you can move the feed a little earlier if needed to avoid feeding to sleep as this can become a prop.

He is still very young so it's not expected the routine is spot on, it will get better in time if you keep on.
Like I said, there may be reasons he is less happy to go into the moses during the morning, if he has discomfort from reflux this can prevent him from being comfortable enough to sleep, the tiredness builds across the day so that by afternoon he is then so tired that it sleep becomes his priority and maybe he crashes out regardless of the reflux.
It could be that reflux medication could help and/or raising the head end of the moses basket.

As he manages to nod off in your arms in the morning hours maybe do an arm nap or sling nap for the morning naps and moses for the afternoon.  You can still offer a consistent routine for him to learn and still work on gradually teaching independent sleep in the cot/moses each day but just limit it to one or two naps in the moses rather than every nap.  I think you'll find most people with 2 or more LOs do not aim for all cot naps anyway as it is too restrictive to be able to get out to toddler groups or school runs with the other child.  Instead the consistency of routine comes from knowing that certain naps are in the pram or sling and certain naps are in the cot.

It's a bit too early to be considering reducing any night feeds but you could anyway offer a 6.30am feed and think of it as a top up rather than a full feed. Then aim for a feed 3hrs later at 9.30am  He could well start to fit into that routine in a little time.  If he was older you could do a slightly smaller feed at the 5am/6am NF and then a proper feed at WU 6.30am but at this age I wouldn't advise that.

hope this helps

[Mumofboys17]

Back again with more questions!

Things just seem to be getting worse - Ds is now 7 weeks old.

We are managing to get 3 hours between feeds now which feels like an achievement! However daytime sleep is still elusive! He is a very wide awake baby and it's very difficult to get him to go to sleep. At the moment we are using a dummy and rocking/patting him to sleep in our arms. However as soon as the dummy falls out he wakes up and we start all over again. If we are successful in getting him to sleep then when we try to transfer him to Moses basket he wakes up after 10 mins or so, it doesn't matter if we've held him for 10 mins or an hour. However at night after dream feed he sleeps very well in Moses basket.

As he is having more awake time now we are trying to do the EAS cycle as much as possible but I'm now wondering if I should get rid of the dummy and start trying to get him to sleep in the Moses basket rather than transfer him? I don't know if he is still too young for this and I should just do whatever it takes until he is 12 weeks?

Also he fell asleep this morning when the hairdryer was on, so wondering if white noise would help? Can that be a prop like the dummy?

[creations]

Hi there
I'll try to answer your questions but there is not clear cut answer really, it is all based on your own decisions.

However as soon as the dummy falls out he wakes up and we start all over again.

This is why Tracy suggested in her books that the dummy would only be used during the wind down and not throughout sleep so that LO can use up their reflex to suck hard then you remove it when the sucking lessens and they learn to fall to sleep without it. This avoids the problem of it dropping out and avoids the many replugs during naps/nights when LO can't fall to sleep without the paci (as a prop for sleep).

I'm now wondering if I should get rid of the dummy

SIDS guidance is that there is some evidence that it is safer for baby to have a dummy. Also that babies who are reliant on the dummy for sleep should not have it removed cold turkey until 6 months and the higher risk age has passed.

I would read up as much as you can about dummy use and make a decision based on info as it is a personal thing in my opinion. My own LO refused a dummy so I did't have this decision to make.

when we try to transfer him to Moses basket he wakes up after 10 mins or so,

This is covered in the BW books as a common problem. You will need to shush/pat for another 20 mins after LO is put into the moses even if he appeared asleep when you put down. This is part of the sleep training method to pat until deep sleep and you see LO melt into the mattress and the breathing change.

However at night after dream feed he sleeps very well in Moses basket.

LOs are often different at night so although both night and day effect one another it's not uncommon for LOs to accept the moses/cot at night when they fuss more in the day.

and start trying to get him to sleep in the Moses basket rather than transfer him?

It would likely be beneficial to get him down into the moses before he nods off. I found with mine he needed to be in the position he would fall asleep and wake up in before he started the seven mile stare. if I changed his position he couldn't find his object to stare at (we did have this problem and had to go through a new wind down routine with a different focal point).  If you want to go ahead making steps towards independent sleep then I'd get him into the moses sooner.  He is not too young you can do this from birth, you keep picking up when he cries and settle fully in arms (calm, relaxed, not asleep) and you never leave him to cry or to cry hard without being picked up.  I started with my DS pretty much from day 1 although I didn't discover BW until he was 4 wks.  He was sleeping independently at around 8 wks ish.

I should just do whatever it takes until he is 12 weeks?

It's really your choice, it as much (if not more so) about when *you* are ready for sleep training as LO.  If you feel ready go for it

if white noise would help? Can that be a prop like the dummy?

White noise is not considered a prop because you don't have to keep going back in, you can just put it on and leave it. If it helps I'd use it. There are all sorts of colourful noises available (look on line, lots for free many at a small cost too for download and you can set a CD player to repeat) including white, pink, black...any you or your LO like is fine.

hope this helps