Am I helping my 9 month old too much?

[CbabyJ]

So it's been a while now- I've been persisting with 3hr 30 for the afternoon awake time and he is still waking after 30-40 mins and is normally so so sad when he wakes.  Mostly he goes down easy for the nap.  I just hate the fact that the schedule is clearly making him sad.
In the morning I've been working to about 3hr 15 and even that seems a push.  He is still only napping a hour and 20 almost exactly every morning.

Nights are still all over the place but I'm reducing the mins nursing and soon I will try phase it out apart from early morning if he needs it.  Right now I can get him back to sleep just by picking him up and gently rocking for a few mins.  Not ideal but I want to get some sleep!

[becj86]

In the morning I've been working to about 3hr 15 and even that seems a push.  He is still only napping a hour and 20 almost exactly every morning.

So this isn't so bad - Its slightly UT though... How are the early hours of the morning going? I think he could probably be awake a little longer than that. Would you consider taking him to a park or something in the morning to help him stay interested in being awake a little longer?

he is still waking after 30-40 mins and is normally so so sad when he wakes.

How's he behaving when he wakes?

[CbabyJ]

When he wakes from his afternoon nap he's always super miserable.  I feed him which perks him up half the time.  Otherwise it takes him a long time to be happy usually it helps if his brother is around!
For the morning - it's getting harder to occupy him for three hours as we live in Canada and it's getting pretty cold! I think he could go longer some mornings especially when his nights haven't been bad.  But he's still waking 3 times on average.  Early mornings aren't bad - usually one wake up with a feed but for the most part he is doing ok there.  It's the early part of the night that's a bit of mess. 

[CbabyJ]

Any insight into why the afternoon nap is terrible?  I think my next strategy has to be to reduce the awake time -  he is so miserable when he wakes.  Today he only slept for 25 mins.

[becj86]

Any insight into why the afternoon nap is terrible?

Sorry, this is why I was asking what his behaviour is like when he wakes - what does miserable look like? Crying does not always mean miserable - it can mean a myriad of things at this age, its still a major part of LO's communication.

Is there a reason you haven't increased that first A time of the day beyond 3hr? I really think that's where you will get returns. You are there and know your child best. I can only provide advice based on my experience with my one child and the many people I've learned from and helped over the past 6.5 years on this forum. I think there's an issue with the first A time being too short and I have seen second naps go awry and/or be refused due to a combination of too-short 1st and 2nd A times countless times and I think that's what is an issue here.

[CbabyJ]

He does genuinely seem miserable for quite sometime .... even feeding doesn’t seem to perk him up.

He has had two good nights the last couple of days only waking once - I’ve shortened feeds to 5 mins so tonight will be the first night where I try to cut it out completely.
Given the good night last night - he wasn’t tired at all this morning - he fell asleep at 3hr 30 so we shall see how it goes ... fingers crossed !

[becj86]

Fingers crossed for a good nap and another good night!

[CbabyJ]

So 3hr 30 in the am is producing a long nap... maybe too long ha ha!  I had to wake him today after two hours -  I was worried about squeezing in a second nap.

As for the nights... Wednesday night was my first attempt and no night feeds- I sent my husband in at 1 and it took an hour but he slept till 530 and I managed to get him back down till 630am.

Last night... I don’t want to jinx it but he slept 710-540!!!!  And I got him back down for another half an hour so his wake up time wasn’t too early. 
Maybe I needed to send my husband in a few months ago.

Anyway, fingers crossed that things keep improving. Who knows it might have just been a fluke night.

I still find that second nap hard- I had a hard time putting him down yesterday after 3hrs 40 awake, and when he did finally sleep I had to wake him after 20 mins to get my older son -  there just don’t seem to be enough hours in the day for that nap to happen.

[becj86]

How have you been going? Hope you've had some more good nights, that one was great!

That second nap at this age is usually a catnap anyway, so don't worry too much about it being short. I have found that its best to focus on keeping one nap long if you can so you don't run into as many issues with nap length when you get to one nap.

[CbabyJ]

Hello!  I was just about to post when I saw your message!  Well I’ve had 6 nights of 7pmish-6amish  !!!

So a definite improvement.  Only my issue now is that he wakes around 545am and is happy so I try my best to leave him till at least 6am.  This is a bit too early for me though and I would like him to wake later to sync up better with the family.

He’s been napping good 1.5-2hrs in the morning with a catnap in the afternoon.  The last few days he’s needed his morning nap at 3hrs not 3hrs30 awake - I think he’s been in pain with teething.
I make sure he’s awake by about 345 in the afternoon so that can mean only a 20min nap.  As he needs about 3hrs 15-30 before bed.

Any thoughts on the early waking ?

[becj86]

Great news re: good nights

I think if you push that first A time, he will naturally sleep a little later in the morning, though with an 11hr night, its not really an EW. Yes, its early, but he could well have had sufficient sleep.

I'd suggest you look at shifting his whole day slowly (say over 4 weeks or so) rather than trying to get him to sleep 12hr over night. If you can push that first A time and shift the naps later, I'd keep the CN pretty short and try to do BT a little later.
So the way I would start that is to say the first nap happens at 3:30 or 9:45, whichever is later for a week, then move that to 3:30 or 10am, whichever is later and so on, until his day has shifted to a more desirable WU but that will mean a later BT.
Does that make sense?

[CbabyJ]

Today oddly he wasn’t tired till 3hr 30 in the AM - had a good nap but in the afternoon he was tired earlier than usual and needed a nap at 3hr 20 -  he slept an hour and I woke him at 345.

I’m wondering if he wakes early as he is just getting used to the lack of food overnight and is genuinely hungry but I guess he wouldn’t wake happy in that case ?

I am reluctant to do a later night as it means an even later night for my 3 year old but I guess I may have to. 

[becj86]

I am reluctant to do a later night as it means an even later night for my 3 year old but I guess I may have to. 

Yes, I can understand that. Unfortunately, a 12hr night is not really a reasonable expectation at this age. He's sleeping an 11hr night which is spot on normal so its either the 6am WU for the day or a later BT.

I’m wondering if he wakes early as he is just getting used to the lack of food overnight and is genuinely hungry but I guess he wouldn’t wake happy in that case ?

He may wake happy but he'd be hungry if he were waking for hunger. Perhaps he'd be impatient for his morning milk or some similar sign of hunger.

[CbabyJ]

I’m wondering if he is hungry as today he was very unsettled between 3-430.  Eventually i got him up at 545  as he was pulling at my shirt and wouldn’t settle. 

Last night he couldn’t stay up past 645 he was a mess from 6pm so tired and upset even though he had an hours sleep from 240-345- I did wake him from this nap but maybe I shouldn’t have.  Normally after a good sleep he would be fine till 715

Hoping last night was a one off.

[becj86]

3-430

This *could* be UT related to the short first A time - it may need another bump now the increase to 3:30 has done its job.

It could also be a regression with the weaning of the NFs - after a while they can just wake and test your resolve and make sure the new order really is here to stay.

Hopefully it was a one-off. FX for a better night tonight