Author Topic: Need help with AT  (Read 908 times)

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Offline ZanesOTmom

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Need help with AT
« on: November 08, 2017, 12:36:22 pm »
Hi all. I am back. I am wondering if I'm right in extending AT. DS is now 7m1w old. Here's our current EASY:

WU/PU 0700 (or 0645 if restless or whiney)
E 0715 milk
E 0830 solids
A 3.20 (today is day 7 from 3.05-3.10)
S 1020-1200 (would sleep between 30-40mins then wake up. Would take in arms and he will settle within 1-13mins, dropped back to crib after 20mins asleep in arms and he would sleep another 40-60mins. More details below)

E 1215 the. Solids 1.5h later
A 3.05
S 1505-1650 (again would sleep 30-40mins, in arms to settle then back to crib after aslee for 20m. Would sleep another 40-60mins)

E 1700 then solids 1h later
Bedtime routine then top up then crib by 3h AT awake. Asleep within 5-10mins. More or less an independent sleeper at night.

Had been having a NF around 0130-0230 until 2 days ago; he is formula-fed. He gave me 9-10hr stretch, not looking for milk. He gets restless around 0430-0500. Usually he would self settle eventually but if still restless in 30-40mins, I take him to bed with me, still in the nursery. If he's with me, he wakes at 0645-0700. If he's in the crib, he wakes around 0615 and plays quietly until picked up.


Naps: he's always been a catnapper but I was able to extend some of the time with shhpat or at least he would settle in crib eventually with shpat. Until he reached about 6 months of age. I tried shpat, rubbing his back, firm hand, gently jiggling - all seem to stimulate him and make him more awake. I also tried hovering then patting, eventually stopped working also. He then started having fragmented naps. For am nap for example, he would sleep 30-40mins, I'd resettle in crib and he would sleep less than 15mins. Resettle again in crib and again, sleeps for 15mins or less. I then decided to just take him in my arms; 20mins seems to be the number. I can put him back in his crib and he would sleep some more, while I get my Y time.

I know I've become a prop but I feel like I've tried everything. I'm hoping extending AT is the answer and maybe his naps will extend naturally and will also improve his night sleep. We did 3-2 transition end of Aug/beginning of Sept and he was down to 2 naps by mid-September, i.e. 3h AT. I read somewhere that his AT should be extended every fortnight. Does that mean we have a lot of catching up to do? He gave me 1h10-20m stretch for nap 3 times in October with AT 3.05-3.15. I increased to 3.20 a week ago but haven't seen any difference. I guess I'm looking for validation to keep extending even though he's only 7months. Or am I wrong?

Thank you so much for any input. we've come a long way since I started EASY several months ago, so thank you!!!

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 15:20:44 pm »
Hi there
If you look at the guidance A time FAQ
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0
it says at 7 months "some are getting more". At this age babies can vary quite a lot and I really don't think you need to worry about trying an A time increase.  It is not necessary to always increase every A time in the day. If you notice a time in the day he does the shorter nap BUT can also extend the nap with help then perhaps that is a time he needs a bit more A time so that he can try to transition into the next sleep cycle alone.
Unfortunately he might have now formed a habit of being picked up at the 40 min mark for resettling so IMO you'd need to be prepared to have another go at sleep training again if you really wanted to get your Y time back.

For what it's worth my DS was always the "some are doing more" A time. His first A time had to be very long to get a good nap, after that a bit shorter and a very short A time before BT.  Some are the total opposite, a short A time in the morning and longer before BT.  You know your LO best and probably know yourself where you could need a little stretch on the A - perhaps as you said, just looking for a nod from someone outside to give you the confidence to go ahead.

You don't have to wait 2 weeks to increase A times, you can increase every day if you have far to go...but it looks like you probably only need to add another 15 mins or so and he could start doing a 1hr 20 stretch again on his own.  If that happens you could look at increase one nap to longer than this with W2S.  It does sound like a bit of a combo of needing the extra A and a bit of encouragement to stay in his cot and not come up into arms.
If you do need to pick up I'd really try to get him back in the cot before he nods off and keep firm hands on him or pat.

hope this helps


Offline ZanesOTmom

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 21:46:01 pm »
I need help please urgently. I know it's very early bedtime but I'm not sure what time. EASY today:

S 1955h and slept through to 0530 (first time this long)
Won't settle in crib as fully awake. Slept in my arms at 0623 until woken up at 0700.

E 0715 then solids
A 3.30 (day 1)
S 1030-1100 resettled in crib S 1110-1153 (no crying, just awake)

E
A 3.03 (took 6 mins to sleep instead of less than 5 mins, put awake in crib)
S 1456-1536 woke up, no crying. Firm hand and patting, he was trying to go back to sleep but couldn't. Very restless and started crying after 15mins of waking up. Tried to settle in arms and put down when drowsy but started crying again. Finally put to sleep in crib at 1609 but woke up at 1617h. Tried APOPing him, he isn't wide awake. So got him up at 1630 for feed. 

What time should I put him to bed? 2.5h AT from 1536h or 1617h? I couldn't rely on his tired signs now so that's a no-go. I just want to preserve his long night stretches and hoping he's not UT nor OT at bedtime!!! Please help me!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 21:51:19 pm by ZanesOTmom »

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 11:02:51 am »
Sorry, I've only just seen your post as you posted after I'd finished my BW stint for the day.
What did you do in the end?
Hope you had a decent night.


Offline ZanesOTmom

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 12:15:52 pm »
It's ok. :) I was hoping anyone out there would provide any direction. I was tired and couldn't think; I was on auto mode and that was just too much thinking for me. Lol

I put him to bed an hour that usual. So really 2.5h after 1617h awake time. It's hard to say if he's OT or UT... he woke up at 0130 restless so I fed him (first time in 4 days). He settled back to bed until 0515. He was mantra crying but self settled, happened on and off until 0615 when he played and eventually picked up when he cried  at 0643h. He did so well considering the early BT and crappy naps.

I'll continue with 3.30 AT in am then 3-3.05h midday. If no change by day 5-6, I'll increase to 3.40. Thanks for checking in, creations. Here's hoping the long stretches come back tonight.

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 14:51:44 pm »
Not a bad night considering.


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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 12:26:01 pm »
After much reading and looking through my notes and accepting DSís sleep patterns, i now truly believe heís LSN. Heís been sleeping 9h and some change at night when Iím consistent with 3h day sleep. Averaging 12-12.5h total sleep in 24h. Heís always averaged 13-13.5h in 24h for many months now and thatís with APOP or forcing him to sleep some more. I realized that when Iím forcing him to sleep more by APOPing, thatís when Iíve been getting NWs (some up to 1.5h long).

Not sure if LSN moms are still on (Martini, LovelyLilyandJack) but Iíd appreciate any input. Hereís yesterdayís EASY:

EBT of 1830h due to crappy nap. Woke at 0130, fed, changed. Took 1.5h to settle back in crib. Awake at 0550.
PU 0630
E 0710 then solids 0830
A 3.45 (day 4 from 3.30)
S 1015 slept for 37m then mantra cried that escalated. Seemed hungry so fed. Slept again for 55m 1126-1223h.

E 1245 solids
E 1450 top-up
A 3h
S 1523 for 1h33m (heís never done this unassisted!!! woken up)

E solids
E 2000 milk
A 3.20
S 2015h 9h straight! Slept another 20mins or so on and off; he was quietly playing til started complaining at 0612. Finally picked up at 0615.

Iíve been consistently been able to resettle and extend naps to 1.5h x 2, 90% of the time. Am I right to continue pushing his am AT? When do I start capping naps? Ideally, WU would be at 7am but Iíll take STTN any day then up early.

Edit: I wanted to extend to 4h am AT but fell asleep at 3.47 :-/. He then took a whopping 2h nap which hes never done EVER ( except once as a catch up nap when I first started EASY)!!! I will extend his midday AT to 3.30 then hoping he will sleep another 1.5h then try to extend AT before BT. Iím thinking ideally BT should 9pm? Am I crazy?!?!? Heís 7.5 mo the old...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 17:12:04 pm by ZanesOTmom »

Offline ZanesOTmom

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 21:38:55 pm »
I JUst wanted to provide an update. So Friday night, after a whopping 2h15m am nap (who are you and what have you done to my baby?! Lol 😆), we extended AT to 3.27h but that was too much as he slept for 31mins and cried inconsolably. Iím guessing itís too much extension. We scrambled tho as it was way too early and I donít want EBT we did 10min catnap after 2.5h mellow AT then he slept 1.5h later - BT at 2024h. I was super anxious as this was unchartered territory but he did so well! Almost 10.5hrs of uninterrupted sleep. He mantra cried twice but only for couple of minutes then went back to sleep. 👍👍👍 for the first time since I gave birth I slept in our bedroom and not the nursery the whole night. Will do this again tonight. SO AWESOME!!!

Today:
WU/PU 0645
A 3.48 (again tried to extend to 4h but no go)
S 1.20mins (anything more than 55mins is so unlike my DS so Iíll take this any day!)
A 2.55 (he was so sleepy at 2.40 already..)
S  1.30mins

Planning on BT after ~3.15AT (7:45pm).

Should I stay put for now or still try on extending both am and pm AT? And should I start thinking about capping nap/s?

Thanks so much to you all here for the help and support. Just when I thought more than 40min naps are unicorn-like almost, it finally happened to us! Iím so elated I donít know what to do with myself. Lol

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2017, 19:41:55 pm »
Great update! :)
So please to hear you had a good night - so now you know it can happen.

I think I'd be tempted to stay on this A time a few days or a week or two to see what happens. With one nap at 1hr 20 and one at 1hr 30 (they are odd times, it sounds odd to me because I expect LOs to do the same length nap or cut one short at a clear sleep cycle length but never mind).  The naps could get a bit longer but then you'd need to start thinking about how late BT is going to end up.

Lets see how things go.


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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2017, 02:06:18 am »
Would it be an issue you think? Like today, first nap was 1.15h and second was 2.15h. The time he transitions between sleep cycles varies; I see him stir and/or lightly wake up anywhere from 37-min Mark to 47-min Mark.

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2017, 20:19:36 pm »
Well, those naps sound great so I would just stick with what you are doing for now :)


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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2017, 09:41:43 am »
Help! Heís started with NW and EW again. Itís been blissful the past few weeks but this past week had been brutal. Again. It coincided with Leap 6 so Iím not sure if to leave his routine be. Hereís our EASY THE PST 48h:

NW 0200-0300 - unable to self settle, fed and rubbed back until fell asleep in crib
EW 0620 - I had to assist him again. Heís been waking up 0700-0715 In prior weeks.
WU 0712
A 4.02
S 1114-1333 he woke at 1.22 but was able to extend with back rubbing
A 3.08
S 1638-1718 didnít extend as heís already  slept around 3h daytime
Put to crib early for BT as last nap was short (2.53 AT).

Woke around midnight but able to self settle.
EW 0600 quietly playing and slept on and off until PU

PU 0648
A 4h
S 1047-1258
A 3.04
S 1602-1639 - woke up crying, very unusual and unable to resettle.
BT 1943 put to bed early but didnít sleep til 3h AT.
NW 0300 - whining on and off. After an hour, I fed and rubbed back but didnít work. Eventually fell asleep in my arms at 0430 😕

Is this developmental and shouldnít be changing his routine? He had been teething but weíve been medicating on and off, I donít see any difference tbh, in terms of sleep and mood. He almost never cries...

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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2017, 19:47:36 pm »
Hi there. Sorry I'm not able to offer very good support at the moment as I've hurt my back. If you feel it is developmental I'd stick with the routine and ride it out. Otherwise I suggest starting a new thread so you get new
support x


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Re: Need help with AT
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2017, 19:54:43 pm »
No problem. Please take care and thank you so much for helping and supporting us. ❤️