Author Topic: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings  (Read 673 times)

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Offline lkat

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Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« on: November 08, 2017, 20:27:44 pm »
Hello ladies

So since daylight savings on Sunday my LO has been waking up reaaaallly early. Anywhere from 3:30-5:30am. I totally messed up the DLS and didn't know I was supposed to put her to bed late the night before. So. I was hoping she'd be adjusted by now but shes not. Pre-DLS she was waking between 6:45-7:15am, and had naps 9:00-9:45am, 12:00-2:00pm, and 4:00-4:45pm, and asleep for the night at 6.30pm. She was really happy on this schedule. Now she wakes at 5am or before. I try to get her back to sleep but haven't been very successful. So after a while I give up and then I wait for her 2 hrs A time and then put her down as usual. She'll sleep 30 minutes and wake up still tired. I've tried pu/pd in the past but she finds it really stimulating and gets upset. I tried W2S which also didn't work. The only way I can ever get her back to sleep is by holding her with the paci in and patting her bum. Which is fine but then I am stuck like like for the duration of her nap with a numb arm :-[ :-[. Before daylight savings sometimes she would wake between 3-5am but she would always fall right back to sleep. Now she doesn't seem to be able to do that.

I do think she is overtired as she is only napping 30 minutes 4x per day for a total of 2 hrs as opposed to the 3.5 hours she was getting, plus shes missing out on 1-3 hrs of night time sleep.

Anyone have any ideas of how to fix it? Should I decrease her A time during the day, or increase it in the hopes that she will sleep longer? She is definitely much grumpier during the day and is showing sleepy signs even upon waking (scratching her head and pulling her ears) so its confusing as to when I should actually put her down.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 20:42:20 pm by lkat »

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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 12:43:34 pm »
Hi there
Sorry to hear the clock change messed up your routine - i always found it a tricky time with my DS too.

I wasn't sure how old your LO was so I've just jumped on to a previous thread you have about 3-4 wks back when your LO was 5 months and bec supported you. I see there the naps did improve and your LO needed around 2hr 30 A time.
I would say now that your LO is probably approaching 6 months that she needs a minimum of 2hr 30 A time and more likely 2hr 45 (possibly increasing to 3hr very soon).

To start to get back on track with the clock change here's what I'd do:
Day 1
I would do your best to get her back to sleep if she wakes before 6am.  Then count from WU 2hr 30 and not put her down to nap a moment earlier.  This makes the earliest for nap time 8.30am.
I would also stay in her room with a hand very near and ready to begin resettling the moment she stirs from sleep, so if she starts to wake at 30 mins begin shush/pat or patting and key phrase or rubbing her back, whatever you usually do to settle her when she need more help.  Really try to get a longer nap there.
Follow ANY length nap with a minimum of 2hr 30 now, not 2hr.  If she sleeps a great 2hr nap though I'd increase the following A to 2hr 45.
Aim for 6.30pm BT either by squeezing in a CN or by letting her A time go up to 3hrs - no longer than 3hrs though. Do slightly earlier BT if you have to, to avoid an over long A before BT.

Day 2
Try to resettle EW
A 2hr 30 or 8.45am which ever is the latest - be by her side ready to resettle the nap
as per day 1. Keep A times to minimum 2hr 30
after a good nap give 2hr 45 A time
aim for 6.30 BT but can be EBT to avoid a long last A time

Day 3
Try to resettle EW
A 2hr 30 or 9am which ever is the latest - be by her side ready to resettle the nap
continue as per previous days and BT

Day 4
resettle EW
A 2hr 30 or 9.15 which ever is latest

Day 5
resettle EW
A 2hr 30 or 9.30 which ever is latest
This is where you will keep the nap for a little while.
The clock change has now been done over a period of days and LO should start to adapt to the times.

This is a period of change so I wouldn't expect the routine to be smooth or for all naps to be great. if you can get that first nap longer though the rest of the day should hopefully be a bit easier.
After this we'd need to reassess really to see where the additional A time needs to be added, like I say it is likely 2hr 45 now and even moving to 3hr soon.

Good luck. We're here if you want to update.


Offline lkat

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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 17:34:08 pm »
Hi there,

Yesterday was a much better day. She woke at 5.45am and went back to sleep on and off until 7.20am. I tried my best to keep her up until 9.50am to make the 2.5hr awake time, but she was so fussy and tired looking that I put her down after 2.25 hrs and she slept 1 hr which is a big improvement. She then had a short CN in her carrier from 11:55-12:15 and slept a proper nap from 1-2pm with a cat nap from 4:15-5:00pm and was in bed by 6:30pm. Again I tried to keep her awake in the afternoon for 2.5 hrs but she started falling asleep on her playmat and so I put her down a bit early. I was hoping to keep her up closer to 7 but she was sooo grumpy/fussy that we felt we needed to put her down before she had a meltdown which makes it more difficult to get her down for the night. I am really hesitant to drop the CN as she is cranky in the evenings even after having that 45min sleep, I don't think she could go from 3pm to 6:30 without it. When do LO's usually drop the CN? Or maybe when she starts having longer naps in the morning and afternoon I can look at dropping it.

Do LOs need a shorter A time in the morning? I had read that on some other sleep sites.

I think I will gradually try to go to 2.5-3 hr awake time rather than a big jump. She seems to be tired soo quickly and I want to avoid her being too OT to settle.

She woke up at 5.45am again this morning but with some white noise and head rubbing she went back to sleep until 7:15am. It is now 9.30am and I've just put her down as she was falling asleep in her bouncy chair. I picked her up and tried to distract her but she started crying so I took her to bed.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 17:35:59 pm by lkat »

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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 10:10:31 am »
When do LO's usually drop the CN?
Commonly at 5-6 months.  The A time would be 3hrs for a 2 nap day.

Do LOs need a shorter A time in the morning? I had read that on some other sleep sites
Some sleep sites/methods have a strict schedule which all LOs are expected to fit into. They don't.  Some LOs do like a short first A time and longer as the day goes on with the longest being before BT but some are the total opposite and do well on a very long first A time and shorter through the rest of the day. Mine was like this and had a super long first A time, then shorter and the shortest before BT.  Trying a short A time with my DS would have resulted in dealing with hours of screaming whilst he refused to nap and then if he had eventually napped it would be short - just pointless.  With a long first A he went down independently and happily, slept 2hrs and woke happy.

I think I will gradually try to go to 2.5-3 hr awake time rather than a big jump
OK :) Just be aware that A times increase quite quickly between 4 and 6 months.  Staying on an A time which worked at 5 months is not likely to continue to work at 6 months and short naps caused by UT can result in LO being OT later in the day because of the short naps rather than because the A time is too long.  You know her best so this is just a reminder to watch out for it.


Offline lkat

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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 21:26:06 pm »
I have been trying to keep her up longer with not much luck :( Yesterday I put her down at 2.5 hours A time for her lunch time nap, she was already a bit grumpy so she refused that nap. I tried to put her down again at 4pm to see if she would sleep before dinner but no luck, same thing happened.

I've been watching the clock and I notice that at 2hrs awake time almost to the minute she starts showing sleepy signs like rubbing her eyes and getting grumpy. Is this out of habit or is it possible she can only handle this much A time? Do I just ignore this and persevere to 3hrs awake time and see if that works? Two Fridays ago I kept her awake 3 hrs to attend a baby group and she still only slept ~40mins :-\ :-\

She also seems unhappy when she wakes up. Today again she only slept for 30-40 mins for her "big" nap which should be over an hour. When she woke up I went down and she was rubbing her eyes and scratching her head and seemed frustrated.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 21:29:16 pm by lkat »

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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 22:10:00 pm »
I have been trying to keep her up longer with not much luck
If you need to establish a new routine you may need to also be quite strict about timings. In the BW books Tracy was really quite strict on times when putting a LO onto a suitable routine, it can be hard work and it doesn't mean LO sleeps well right away but the point is to get them into a suitable routine where they then do have the chance of sleeping much better.  Once on a suitable routine the flexibility returns to the EASY routine so that a LO who is more tired one day due to greater stimulation etc can be put down earlier etc.
LOs are not always happy to have their routine changed.

I've been watching the clock and I notice that at 2hrs awake time almost to the minute she starts showing sleepy signs like rubbing her eyes and getting grumpy. Is this out of habit or is it possible she can only handle this much A time?
Well, there are some babies who are very high sleep needs and so would need longer naps and shorter A times or longer nights etc but I don't think you have mentioned that your baby is higher sleep needs so I would assume these sleepy signals are due to:
- habit, LOs get used to be ing put down after a certain amount of time so they show signs of readiness
- boredom, needs a change in activity
- is tired because the naps are short and LO is not getting a restorative sleep, if this is the case the answer really is to increase the A time to get the longer nap and then LO won't be so tired.

She also seems unhappy when she wakes up. Today again she only slept for 30-40 mins for her "big" nap which should be over an hour. When she woke up I went down and she was rubbing her eyes and scratching her head and seemed frustrated.
This sounds like she was either UT for the nap and needed a bit longer A (or higher stimulation) to get her tired enough to sleep longer OR she is unable to transition between sleep cycles for some other reason such as teething pain, too hot/cold, wet nappy or other discomfort, has forgotten that she is supposed to sleep longer and needs reminding.

Have you managed to resolve the EW and routine due to the clock change yet?


Offline lkat

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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 00:24:14 am »
Thanks for your prompt replies. Yes the EW's have gotten better but she does still wake early, although she's been going back to sleep. I go in with white noise, paci and rub her head for about 10 seconds, to signal that its still sleeping time. Unless shes upset or been awake long enough to get hungry I'm really strict about not getting her out of bed before 7am.

I was pretty strict about timings before all this, she would go down for naps at 9am, 12pm, 4pm and bed by 6.30pm. Now I'm all unsure of everything, not sure when she is tired or how long I should keep her up for and cant tell if she is OT, UT, or just bored. Babies are hard, lol.


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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 11:30:06 am »
she would go down for naps at 9am, 12pm, 4pm and bed by 6.30pm
You know as it hasn't been such a long time since you were on this stable routine maybe you could just go back to this now that she has adjusted to the clock change?  The times you had were short for her current age but if it works for you then it works.  If your baby has enough sleep and is happy you can have any routine that works.

I always feel there is something about the seasons changing that LOs are aware of, mine always seemed to be and I've seen other threads were LOs are aware of the seasons changing too, maybe it was just that and the clock change that threw her off track?
Or...she really needs to move to 2 naps... sorry it's so hard to know.  You will eventually settle down into another steady routine though.


Offline lkat

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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 21:28:51 pm »
You know as it hasn't been such a long time since you were on this stable routine maybe you could just go back to this now that she has adjusted to the clock change?

I think I will do this actually. Today is day 3 or 4 of keeping her awake longer, and she hasn't been napping well at all. Maybe she has high sleep needs? She slept 13 hours last night until 7.15am this morning, but was yawning and rubbing her eyes at 8.45, which is only 1.5 hrs A time, but I kept her awake until 9.30am, then she slept 35 mins. Then I pushed the next A time 2.5 hours until 12.30pm and put her down. I could tell she was pretty tired when I put her down, as she was fussing quite a bit (normally she happily goes down). I guess she was too OT to settle, as she cried on and off from 12.30-2pm. I then fed her and got her out of bed for a bit. Tried to put her back at 2.45pm but she cried again. Finally she settled in my bed at 3.15pm which was 5.25 hrs awake time!! She woke 30 mins later at 3.45 :( :(

This is so unusual, I've been putting her down for all naps and bedtimes in her crib by herself since day 1 pretty much, and she has never cried and fussed like she has today. I guess once she is so OT she can't settle. Although she's been awake the odd time for 2.5-4 hrs before and it's never been as bad as today, weird  :-\



« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 23:59:10 pm by lkat »

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Re: Short naps and early waking since daylight savings
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 09:52:52 am »
It sounds like something else might be going on to disturb her, maybe a developmental leap, teething, or possibly coming down with a cold or something?  I forget when LOs have their jabs but that can disturb sleep too, I do remember my DS having a reaction 2 wks after jabs which when I looked at the side effects health sheet made sense but at the time it was really confusing.