STing an almost 19mo when nothing works to calm him down

[airam]

I'm back again and hopefully things will stick this time.

background:

toddler 18.5 months. tried Sting at around 9 or 10 months and it worked for nights (naps were still only an hour or less) but got messed up by a bad sickness at about 12 months and went downhill from there. was focusing on extending AT when I really needed to ST naps independently. so months were lost and I had to give up. slowly naps went back to arms and now BT as well since maybe 16 months or so.

current routine:

naps were in arms, but now I lay him on the bed nursing (but no supply) and move away. only lasts for 1.5hrs and rarely 2 or 3. if he wakes only after 1hr or 1.5, I hold him to finish the 2 hours.

wake up anywhere from 615-7am (sometimes at around 5 something and I will struggle with him moving around on my for 1.5-2 hrs. he'll sleep until 8.
I have depression so we stay in my bed for 30mins to an hour until I can face the day.

only nap is usually 5-5.30hrs from WU. BT is 5 hours after nap. he almost always wriggles around until about 8pm. wakes around 630...on average.
only sleeps for 10-11 hrs. mostly 10.

average day looks like this:
NW: sometimes. yes more than no.
WU:630am (but 7 seems to be for good days)
N: 12-1.5 (to 2 with help)
BT: 8pm (I try for 730 but he just keeps moving in my lap until 745, then I have to wait at least 20mins until hes asleep fully)

questions:

he will cry distressed when I try. pupd doesn't work. nothing really works. the last time I try I started singing and it did work. but he required that I sing for at least 20mins. if I stopped, hed cry. not even recordings worked. I don't want to be hostage again like that. I just want to put him down and be able to leave eventually.

so do I just let him cry even a distressed cry?

are there any other things I can try? what should I say? should I not say anything at all?

[Katet]

As someone who struggled with depression when my children were babies, I had to balance my needs (inability to cope with crying) and my baby's needs

For me the 'routines and rituals' became key, long wind down routines same last story every night, stroking their bodies to relax them and gradually doing it less.
My DS1 is a highly sensitive child and we did have tears but more because he hates change and so lots of explaining what was happening, and lots of Mummy is here.

My DS2 must have had the most sleep regressions in history until I worked out he actually was a super low sleep need child... 11 hours total sleep at 18mo, now at 12 yo 8hours is a good night... he goes to bed when I do and wakes up before I do! So be mindful if he's LSN he may only need that sleep amount

It is not common to be able to put a toddler to bed and just leave, a 20-30 min ritual with stories and singing is quite normal. I found I needed to read differing numbers of stories until I felt their bodies relax and then talk and stroke their skin To relax them, over time it got less but still 20mins of stories, to indicate it's bedtime.

[airam]

Thanks for your reply.

I’ll try a longer wind down...but from what I know he doesn’t really need that. He just takes about 10-15mins on his bed until he can sleep. When I first started sting it was almost a dream since I could just leave him and he’d settle himself. He isn’t a highly sensitive child and I know he needs more sleep than he’s getting. Although, I think we are in a typical sleep regression for this age. I thought we were down since he was waking more for weeks recently...I feel he’s settling now but I’m not sure why he’s still sleeping  for less hours. Maybe you’re right and his needs changed.


My main problem and the reasons I’m here is I really want answers on what to do in my case so I can be confident. I’m willing to face the screams especially now that husband is away for work. I don’t feel guilty when he cries loud at night. So I just need to know...

What do I do if he’s screaming/crying very hard with tears and a runny nose plus he’s standing? Do I just stay quiet and say I’m here you’re ok from time to time and leave him be? Will he just sit and sleep?

What if he wakes at night, do I just do the same and ST?

What if he’s waking super early like today, he went to sleep at 755 in my arms and woke up at 535ish. Do I just allow it and adjust nap tim by making it earlier? Should I keep bap time at 12? Or should I ST him back to sleep?

Should I work on everything or take steps?

I feel like I lack confidence and keep giving up because I don’t know if what I’m doing is right.

ETA: I just checked sleepsires for a schedule and it seems that 1-1.5 hrs nap is ok. Maybe if I leave him with that time, night time will go back to normal?

[Haribo2012]

Hi there, your doing a great job this age is hard with all the things going on from teeth to developmental leaps it is hard to sometimes pin point what’s going on.

Has he ever gone to sleep without your help? Personally I’d sit next to his cot just talking calm quiet words “mummy’s here it’s ok to sleep” or something you choose. Everytime he’s upset or standing I would pat the mattress and say lay down sleep time, if he gets very upset lean into cot reassuring kiss and hug and lay him down, and basically repeat repeat. It’s ok for him to cry when your there and he knows your not leaving him alone. The same applies at night wakings or naps.

At this age I’ve always done set nap time give or take 15/30 mins depending on wake ups, my first was an early waker but I found set naps helped us both keep structure to our day.

Separation anxiety can peak too around this age so he may just need your extra presence at bedtime but I’d avoid pu/pd as far too stimulating at this age.

We all lack confidence at times and these little people are all so different so don’t feel bad, feel free to post anything you like we’re always here to try and help, even if we’re just a sounding board for bouncing ideas off 

[Katet]

Adding to the PP
I've never been confident as a parent when it comes to sleep... I really only know a few confident parents all are Pacific  Islanders who have their babies sleep with them in their arms or siblings arms or relatives arms until they are older. If I'm honest I think 'modern western ideals' are the problems not the sleep. My DH is Finance Manager for an organisation that is parent support for under 2yos... they help with sleep, feeding etc... In a study to look at etnicity and people seeking support it's very Anglo/European specific.

I believe there are 3 big factors in parenting and sleep
1) Children only learn from the opportunities they are given, if we teach them to fall asleep in our arms, then that's how they expect to fall asleep... if we want them to fall asleep in a different way we need to teach them that, and just as them learning to talk, it can take time
2) babies and toddlers seek out exactly what they need to keep their stress levels low, they don't cry to manipulate, they cry to release the stress that is building up in their body, the screaming and snot usually indicates they are stressed ( so they need empathy)
3) little people struggle with change, they find comfort in routines and rituals, change needs to be organised and done with empathy.

It's more a personal thing, but I feel if if a child is upset, saying you're ok is probably sending a mixed message... if we cry we aren't ok... so it's better to say, 'you are confused by the change in routine' 'Mummy is here, I know you are upset'etc... talk about what you observe not what you judge to be happening. (Hugely helpful when they get older)

In terms of everything or steps, how to be confident... if someone can answer that then they'll be and instant millionaire... there really isn't any one size fits all strategy. How to deal with sleep is, personal preference on how much you step in v don't step in... there isn't a magic solution( sadly), Babies change so much in the first few years, Separation Anxiety, teeth, developmental leaps etc IMHO confidence comes from knowing it's almost impossible to get it wrong, and often people don't get it right either, they just manage to get improvements.

[eva026]

I've never been confident as a parent when it comes to sleep... I really only know a few confident parents all are Pacific  Islanders who have their babies sleep with them in their arms or siblings arms or relatives arms until they are older. If I'm honest I think 'modern western ideals' are the problems not the sleep

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