Help needed - 9 week old

[Mumofboys17]

I feel like I am loosing it a bit with my ds's sleep, it's just going from bad to worse.

His naps are all over the place in the day which means he's often tired as he's awake before his feed then falls asleep soon after a feed if not on the bottle then will only sleep for 45 mins even if in my arms.

We have introduced a bedtime routine of bath bottle bed but he's often wide awake for at least an hour afterwards and is very difficult to settle or he has a small sleep of 20 mins then is wide awake for ages.

Then on the night feed, he is often wide awake for ages and is just cooing and looking around despite it being a darkened room and no eye contact tee.

Here is our routine for past few days (roughly) - had a couple of car journeys which helped get some sleep!

7 -so, nappy, feed
7.40nursery run for ds1 in car so fell asleep at some point on journey

10 - woke him up from sleep to feed
11 - sleep in car
12.15 woke up and had some time on his mat

1 - feed
1.30 - asleep for 45 minutes only in my arms could not resettle
2.15 onwards awake

3.30ish - fussing - assuming he is tired so try and help him get back to sleep but no success

4 - feed falls asleep pretty much in bottle
5 - wake up, try to resettle but wide awake

He probably needed resettling here as potential to be o/t but need to feed ds1

6.15 - bath
6.45 - bottle and in theory bed but didn't actually go to sleep until 8.15!

10.15 - Df, fall asleep quite quickly but woke up at 11.30 had to resettle asleep by 12.30

3am - night feed, again wide awake after feed for a good hour and difficult to settle

We are all the wrong way round, and I think because he's waking up early after a nap he's then tired by the time his next feed comes along. I'm starting to feel very anxious about his sleep - a friend says he is probably having too much sleep in the day and I should do a short morning nap, a long lunchtime nap and a after noon catnap instead which. Is making me question myself even more.

[becj86]

Ok, so it looks like he's falling asleep a little undertired and waking after a short nap which is throwing things out a bit.

At 9 weeks, your friend's suggested sleep pattern is probably inappropriate. Might be ok at 4-6 months...

There are a few things you could consider:
1. EAS routine - this is about the sequence of events rather than being a schedule, so when he wakes, you could feed him, even if it hasn't been 3hr.
2. Try keeping him awake for 1:15hr or so after he wakes and see if that helps him sleep a little longer. He's quite little so I'd not be too firm with that but he's likely not going to sleep for the night until much later because he's starting his day being up for only 40min before going to sleep again which means he's probably shifting his night to 9-10pm-10am. I'm not sure what sort of flexibility you have around the nursery run though so that may be tricky.

I think your night issues are likely related to him not really having a day/night clock established as yet. I'd try to incorporate some time outside in the natural light into the first A time of the day and keep night feeds in the dark with minimal interaction so there's obviously a difference for him to learn.

[Mumofboys17]

Thanks for the reply, I did wonder that myself (I did Easy with my older DS but didn't start until he was 4/5 months old).

The nursery run is only 2 days a week and a little flexible but not hugely, think I will try to get him up slightly earlier those days to ensure he has enough A time before leaving. It's so dark in the mornings at the moment it's hard to get any natural light!

I've the past day is so I've tried to keep him up for an hour or so before putting him down as he takes 10 mins or so to settle and go to sleep and we seem to be getting in to a better pattern.

[becj86]

Glad the pattern is getting better. Sounds like a good plan to get him up a bit earlier on nursery days.

[Mumofboys17]

Things seem so I have settled down but the main issue now is settling down after the bath bed bottle routine, he has a bottle at 7 and for the last 3 nights still been awake at 8.30/9.00!

All of his naps are upstairs in a bedroom as it's just too noisy for him downstairs and we play white noise, sometimes he has a dummy and sometimes he doesn't. I have found that if I am trying to get him to sleep but I am distracted by my other DS then he will often cry but eventually go to sleep after a few minutes. Obviously I would like to be there to comfort him rather than him be on his own but it isn't always possible.

After the bed bath bottle routine, we have him downstairs, as I go to bed earlier and my husband does the dream feed, I'm worried I will disturb him when I go to bed. However after his 7pm milk he always seems desperate for the dummy but it's w constant game of keep having to put it in, I'm half tempted to just stop putting it in after a couple of times as it doesn't seem to help him drift off.

I'm not sure where we are going wrong on the evening bit, as by the time he gets to sleep he has been awake over 3 hours!!

The last couple of days have looked like this

7.15 - wake and nappy/milk
8.15 - wind down routine, white noise on etc
8.30 asleep

9.25 - wake
10.00 - feed
10.45 - settled and asleep within minutes

12.45 - wake and feed
2.10 - settled and asleep within minutes
3.40 - awake

4.00 - feed
4.55 - settled and asleep (doesn't seem to be a deep sleep - find this the hardest nap to do. With DS1 I used to walk him but it's too cold and dark!)

5.25 - awake
615 - bath ( ideally this would be earlier but we had to feed ds1 and also get him ready for bed at same time)
6.40 - bottle

We tend to hold him for 29 minutes as he has slight reflux (on gaviscon and it seems to help) before laying him down. Some nights he lays there for ages awake and then drifts off, other nights he needs to sick the dummy constantly and takes him ages to settle.

Any thoughts or ideas?

[becj86]

other nights he needs to sick the dummy constantly and takes him ages to settle.

These nights I suspect the reflux is still bothering him.

4.55 - settled and asleep (doesn't seem to be a deep sleep - find this the hardest nap to do. With DS1 I used to walk him but it's too cold and dark!)
5.25 - awake

1.5hr awake after a short CN like this - I think he's probably really OT by 7pm and probably overstimulated as well if BT with your toddler is anything like BT with mine was. That's hard to do much about, I know but maybe BT at 6:30 or pop him in a sling/carrier for the CN so he naps a bit longer?

[Mumofboys17]

Excellent thanks, makes she's that he is probably overtired.


If he didn't have reflux what would you have said/suggested? Only ask as we (and health visitor) wonder if it has gone as all signs have disappeared - not that it was bad anyway?

[becj86]

Either way it seems as if he's taking a long time to settle, the difference from what you wrote was around sucking on the dummy a lot. I don't know what I would have said but I think it likely I'd have said he may have been in need of more soothing for some reason - plenty of babies suck dummies/fingers to soothe themselves.

Part of what makes me suspect reflux could be an issue is that this is an age when babies tend to be diagnosed with reflux rather than growing out of it because the damage to the oesophagus is starting to become more evident.

If signs have gone, could be that the medication is working. Perhaps have a look at the general reflux info in the medical board as s ome symptoms of reflux aren't immediately obviously related to that.

[Mumofboys17]

Ok thanks, interesting that it's often now that reflux is diagnosed! I think because my older son also had it mildly we went on the gaviscon early because we could see signs that were the same!

[Mumofboys17]

I'm back again, things seem to be going well then it more issues seem to come up! DS is still struggling with the 7pm bedtime, often waking after 45 mins. All his naps are 45 mins apart from 1 nap late morning.

Also after the dreamfeed at 10 he was going to about 4 then waking at 7 but it's crept back to 3, sometimes 2am and now we have a 6am feed/wake up at the latest. Not sure why, he is offered 6oz bottles but never drains them.

Routine for past few days has been

6am wake up/feed
7.20 - nap - go up at 7.20 usually asleep by 7.30
8.15 wake up
9.00 feed
9.30 nap
12.30 wake up/feed
1.45 - nap
2.30/2.45 wake up
3.30 feed
4.00/4.15 - nap
5.00 - wake up
6.30 - feed/bed

It then takes him up to an hour to actually go to sleep, he then can wake after 45 minutes, or he stays asleep but is difficult to settle after the dream feed.

[becj86]

Given we know he *can* sleep a long nap, I think those 45min naps are probably UT rather than developmental. If you give the A time a nudge (average at 3 months is 1.5hr --> 4 months = 2hr --> 6 months = 2:45-3hr), I think you'll find he naps a bit better.

BT issues may well resolve with a tweak to the daytime routine, often they do. He may be a bit OT by the end of the day given he's having shorter naps.  NWs sometimes creep earlier due to growth spurts, sometimes due to being UT for the first nap. Either way, likely to resolve also with an increase in A time.

[Mumofboys17]

Thank you for such a quick response! Think I'll push a times to 1hr 30 and see what happens!

[becj86]

Let us know how you go

[Mumofboys17]

Over the last few days I've pushed a times to 1hr 20 and 1 HR 30 but still getting 45 min naps, for nearly all naps now and also won't resettle either. Wondering if it's just a phase we need to get through.

Also he has a dummy to go to sleep and wonder at the 45 min mark he wakes up and realises he doesn't have it, even if I give it back to him he won't resettle. I am thinking of getting rid of it though so we can teach self settling without it (he's now 11 weeks old so getting close to an age where they can self settle I think)

[becj86]

Ok, so those 45min naps may be UT or developmental - worth trying hold through the jolts or wake to sleep around 35mins and see if he can join those sleep cycles together.

If you want to get rid of the dummy, you can. There is some evidence that they can reduce the risk of SIDS but we don't really know how or why... https://rednose.com.au/article/using-a-dummy-or-pacifier

So long as you're there and teaching self-settling, that's ok. I'd suggest shush/pat or whatever variation you're using successfully to help him fall asleep initially at the moment.