Long time for 3 month old to fall asleep at night

[Dreambaby10]

My almost 14 week old in a couple of days takes about an hour and a half to fall asleep at night. She wound down and taken in the room. I put her for bag on and we say our prayers. By this time (all after eating and bath time) is mellow. But she takes forever ... meaning about an hour 15 or an hour 30 minutes to fall asleep. I hold her to get her drowsy but not asleep and put her down. She then wakes up and starts flailing her arms, getting more excited, waking herself up. So we start again... Pick up to get drowsy, put down, wakes herself up. This continues for a really long time. I'm not sure if I'm helping or not or if I should just let her cry. What can I do to maybe shorten the time she spends trying to sleep.

[becj86]

Its may just be the time of day. What you're doing sounds like its fine, helping her learn to relax and fall asleep - a bit frustrating for you though. You could use shush/pat whilst she's in her cot to help her drift off rather than lying her down and leaving her to it. She may be a bit overtired at that time of night too, so it could be worth shortening that last A time a touch.

Please don't leave her to cry - it breaks the bond of trust between baby and caregiver and leads to much worse sleep issues down the track. Stay with her and help her - she'll learn.

[Dreambaby10]

I'll work on shush/pat to see if the time she falls asleep shortens a bit. She is tired as she has her eyes closed, and looks like she's ready to sleep but after putting her in bed she wakes up. I don't let her cry since I don't believe in doing so, so I do spend all my time in the from with her, with her or his in the room depending on what she does.

By the time she actually falls asleep she's probably overtired! I'll continue to do what I'm doing - with the shush/pat and see what happens. I'll let you know in a few days

[becj86]

Sounds good. She probably is OT taking that long to fall asleep but you're teaching her, she'll get there.

[becj86]

How are you going? Are naps any better?

[Dreambaby10]

Hi

Sorry I wasn't sure how to find post again! We've had improvement on the falling asleep at night. It doesmt nearly take as long as it used to and I'm  not sure how.... not questioning it!

Our problems continues to be short naps during the day. They went from 45 or 50 minutes to about 35 now. Not good. I hold her to sleep and she takes her dummy which she knows means nap time. I've tried wake to sleep and I'm probably 50/50 successful. She definitely needs more sleep but once she wakes, she wakes. Shush pat seems to wake her up. I'm really hoping you can provide some guidance on what I can do - or not do to get her to sleep better.

Here are 3 days of EASY from a couple of weeks ago.

Sun Nov 26

E 635 (woke up at 6.28)
A 650 (diaper and resettle with paci, fell asleep a couple of times but woke herself up)
S 808 to 857
A swing, belly
E 950
S 1035 ( settle at 1015 (fussed rocked w fan)) to 1115
A diaper, tummy time, talk
S 1242  (arms 1220, put in crib 1231) to 115
E 120
A talk
S 230 to 445  (in carrier waled outside)
A bouncy and bath
E 525
A read book
S 600 645 - tried to resettle until 740 then rocked
E 8
S 840?

Mon
E 630   wake 615, didn't resettle, picked up and fell asleep in arms
S 740 to 820
A talk with grandma
E 930
S 952 to 1045 ( tried to w2s at 1030)
A
S 1130 to 1220 (walk in stroller)
A talk
E 115
S 152 to 232 (tried shush pat, slept but woke up crying, picked up and shush pat. Fell asleep 300) slept in arms to 339 woke up happy
A
S 420 to 535 in arms
E 540
A bath
S 645 (settle in arms rocking, kept waking herself up with arms) fell asleep at 8

Fed at 1045, little at 3, little at 540

Tues
Wu at 8
A chat - woke up in good mood
E 845
S 9 ( wake 2 sleep and slept until 1130 when I tried waking her. She cried). Took 10 minutes to wake up and be smiley.
A go to store
E 1245
A burp, go to car
S 110 to 145 in car
A bouncy chair, talk with nana, settle... in arms
S 317 to 348
E 4
A delay to sleep
S 417 to 515
A bath, wait for daddy
S 635 fell asleep in arms some up at 730 resettle. Fell asleep at 840

[becj86]

Looks like some quite ahort A times in there. How old is she now? And can you post the last few days?

[Dreambaby10]

She is 4 months tomorrow the 24th. I'll have to keep notes on times for a couple of days but unfortunately we are travelling from London to Toronto to visit my parents. We're leaving tomorrow and we will be back on January 10th. I already know sleep will be very messed up.

The thing is I feel like she gets tired easily and needs to go down every 1.5 hours or else she gets over tired.

[becj86]

Wu at 8A chat - woke up in good moodE 845S 9 ( wake 2 sleep and slept until 1130 when I tried waking her. She cried). Took 10 minutes to wake up and be smiley.

This is her extending her night to 11:30ish... so BT will be really hard as she's treating it as naps. I'd just go with the flow while you're away and get routine sorted when you're back. When you do get back - its really important to get that first A time long enough that she realises its the start of the day (they're not born with day/night clocks) and ideally she's outside in the sun at some point in that first A time to help set the body clock.

These short naps are variable lengths with some over 45min long, so we know she can transition when she's tired enough but she is undertired for these naps. She may be tired at 1.5hr out of habit - her naps tell me she's not genuinely tired, so you can gently push her A times to at least 2hr, could be 2:15 by the time you're back from Canada.

Enjoy your holidays

[Dreambaby10]

Hmmmm ok interesting. I'll definitely work on the routine when we're back from holiday. I'm ready to get her settled into a better sleep routine. I'll be back in touch in the new year.

[Dreambaby10]

Hello

So we've returned home and we're still working on getting back in a routine. Here are the past 3 days in the EASY format. I really feel that I'm all over the place but there's a bit of a routine in there somewhere. My fear is also the sleep association with food since her nap times are so short. So I'm hoping you can help.

Sun
S wake 920am
A swing, play with toys, talking
E 11am
S 1130am car to church
A 1155 to 115
E 115
S 130 to 205
A grocery store
E 345
S 4 to 530 sling
A play, talk with nana, bath
E 7
S 745 down for the night
E 845
( overnight feeds 1230am, 3am (1oz),630am)

Mon
A Wake 845 skype with greatgrandma, tummy time
E 1030
S 11 to 1130 tried to put back to sleep
A 12 to 130
E 130
S 145 210
A outside walk
S 315 to 350
A
E 430
A
S 545 to 605
A bath
E 7
S 730 down for the night
E1030
(Overnight feeds 1am, 415am  (1oz), 630)

Tues
A wake 730 and eat on&off (1or 2oz)
S 9 to 935
A out to shop at Costco
E 1125
S 1135 in car to 1203
A
S 2 to 250 sling
E 3
A walk outside; fell asleep in stroller 330 to 415
E 615
S down for the night
(Overnight feeds 1am ( a couple of oz),315)

[becj86]

How old is she now?

My fear is also the sleep association with food since her nap times are so short.

That's why we tend to do feeds when LO wakes rather than just before naps. Have you tried that?

What sort of EAS are you aiming for? I'll be honest, there's not much of a routine in there that I can see. Do you have any anchor-points around which the day would ideally sit? Like an ideal wake time or ideal BT or time you regularly need to be out and about?

[Dreambaby10]

She is 21 weeks 5 days right now. My ideal is her waking up between 7 to 730 (which seems to be the case for the past 3 days), with an aim to go out and run errands and such at 930/10, bath and bed routine so she's asleep by 730.

I have tried feeding her when she wakes but again het naps tend to be short so the next feeding ends up being before another nap. For example sje wakes at 730 and doesnt want her milk and I try giving her a bottle but only drinks after about an hour, nap 9/930 and sleeps for about 30 or 35 minutes; then theres activity time; the next feeding should be about 12/1230 but by then it's time for the next nap about 11/30 or so.

I would very much like to get in a routine as I'm a routine person, but she has thrown me off and I don't know how to get back on track.

[becj86]

Ok, so at ~5 months, average A time is up at 2:15-2:30, so if she's up at 7:30 for the day, you're looking at nap time being 9:45 or 10am. Ideally naps are 1.5hr and given she's so used to much shorter A times, you may well have to resettle some OT wakings at 30min into naps for a few days whilst she gets used to being awake for longer. Once she's awake long enough to take a proper long nap and is napping better, your days should be a bit more predictable.

Something like this may suit:
7:30 - wu, feed
9:45 - nap
11:15 - wu, feed
1:30 - nap
3 - wu, feed
5:00 - 30min CN
5:30 - wu, cluster feed if you're doing that
BT routine
7:30 - asleep in bed for the night

[Dreambaby10]

We are at the 2 hour awake times now. When you mention nap times, I'm assuming you mean times when she should be sleeping, correct? So a 945 nap time means settle for nap about 925 so she can sleep by about 945.

It's the naps that are still short of about 30 or 35 minutes. This is what I'm struggling with. Even with the longer activity times,  they're not long enough at the moment. It soynds like she needs  to be more used to being awake longer so she can then get used to taking longer naps. If you have any other suggestions on what I can do to help her lengthen them I would appreciate it.

I'm happy to report that for the past two nights, I've put her in her crib at night and she has settled herself ( first night I held my hand on her belly and did have to pu/pd once; last night I started with holding my hand in her tummy but then I just remained in the room and she fell asleep on her own). I'll continue until I just put her in bed and leave the room.