Author Topic: Tweak with AT needed?  (Read 2641 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ZanesOTmom

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 94
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Tweak with AT needed?
« on: December 04, 2017, 23:38:56 pm »
Hi there. I’m wondering if any have any suggestions with regards to our routine. Here is some history. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=287634.0 Creations had been so great in providing support.

He woke last night around midnight and 3am but eventually able to self settle. He was awake for good at 6am, kicking quietly in his crib. We got him up at 0645h. He had been waking up and getting up at 7-7:15 the past couple of weeks...
A 4.03
S 1047-1139 then full blown cry which was very unusual. He won’t settle in crib so I picked him up until calm then he slept again 1147-1233.
A 2.55 - usually 3h but he was falling asleep during WD
S 1527-1655 which was great cos his pm nap had been less than an hour the past 3 days!

Aiming for 8pm shut eye.
My question had been if we needed a tweak on our AT considering the short pm naps and NW and EW. If anyone has insight, thank you so much!

Offline becj86

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 346
  • Posts: 10859
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 02:25:36 am »
Hmmm. I'm a bit torn. I've gleaned that he's ~8.5 months and his routine is reasonable for that age. He's sleeping at least one good long nap each day which is great. It looks like you're aiming for a reasonable night of 8pm to 7am. The NWs seem quite long though and that usually means there's something off with the day and unusually, I don't think its the first A time of the day being too short. I think you're spot on there.

I think you're at the point that you're going to have one long nap and a CN rather than 2 long naps in order to get a decent night, so you may have to let go of wanting that second nap to be >1hr.

I'd be inclined to make his first nap at 4hr A time or 11am whichever is later just to encourage good night sleep and try to keep that WU at ~7am whilst he's going through this leap. I'm not a fan of changing routines during leaps unless they're blatantly obviously wrong for the child because sleep needs can change with the leaps and often things go back to where they were.

Your DS sounds a little like mine... I found that leaps gave me some odd NWs and when he got a bit older, he would NW to practice new vocabulary (totally not exciting to be woken at 3am by a kid who wants to tell you about tinsel and curtains) so my thought is that perhaps he's thinking and working on some developmental leap (funny that, being leap week) and waking due to that. If he's happy enough to be awake and lying in bed, leave him be. Only intervene if he's upset and the NWs should pass.

Offline ZanesOTmom

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 94
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 03:43:10 am »
Thanks so much, Becj. DS is 8m4d but yeah, longer a time than some I’m guessing. I guess I just needed to hear from an experienced parent that ~3h or less daytime sleep is ok for his age. I was worried that he’d be too tired for BT and cause chaos overnight. I’ve been loving sleeping in my own bed as it’s only been 2 weeks or so.
No need to worry then with the NWs and EWs and him needing less AT in the morning. He’s been managing fine so my worries are really unsubstantiated. His days had been ~13-13.5h long roughly depending on his nap lengths but yes, we are going by AT - 4h-3h-(in bed by)3h. NW had been getting better (I hope I didn’t just jinx it!!!) but will def post again if things go downhill. Thanks again!

Offline becj86

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 346
  • Posts: 10859
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 08:24:36 am »
DS is 8m4d but yeah, longer a time than some I’m guessing.
Yes, but within the range of normal and he's napping well. Glad things are looking steady :)

Offline ZanesOTmom

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 94
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 03:18:54 am »
Hi there. Just wondering if I should leave everything as is or start capping his 2nd nap. Current EASY:

WU/PU 0700
A 3.50-4h (went back to 3.45-3.50 when he got sick)
S 1100 (2.15-2.20h the past 2 days)
A 3.15-3.20 (he’s not sleepy at 3h due to long am nap)
S 1640 (last 2 days had been ~1h or more)
A 3-3.15h
S 2045-2100

His day is now 13.5-14h... he seems to be managing ok but longer term, wouldn’t he be accumulating OT? Should I be capping his pm nap to 45m max? His AT seems to be getting longer and longer, and with sleep getting better, the day length is also increasing. Should I leave everything as is? How do I know I need to do something? Thank you!!

Offline becj86

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 346
  • Posts: 10859
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 06:20:17 am »
Ideally days are no longer than 13.5hr so I'd cap that PM nap to 45min if you can. Its best to keep as much sleep in the night as you can.

Usually people cap the 2nd nap when there is nap or bedtime refusal and/or the day gets too long. Lovely long nap in the middle of the day which stands you jn good stead for going to 1 nap.

Offline ZanesOTmom

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 94
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2018, 21:58:25 pm »
Hi there and we are baacckkkk....

So our EASY had been the same as above except 2nd nap was being capped at 30-45m depending on length of first nap. Hed been so good until the past 3 weeks. LO started needing assistance at 1.10-1.20 during first nap and he easily resettled; this only happened a handful of times over 2 weeks. Then we were away on vacation for a week (Jan 21-28), no time difference. We let him napped as he pleased, sticking to our routine as much as possible. We came home and all of a sudden he still wanted to play at 4.10 first AT. He would also cry everytime i dropped him in crib so I figured he needed more AT as he was undertired. He also needs assistance now at ~1.20 during first nap DAILY. He would fully wake up and sit-up in crib, usually no crying and then call out. If I dont, come then the crying begins. He would resettle SOMETIMES but only in my arms, then back in crib. Other times he wont resettle at all :(

Heres our EASY the past 2 days:

Feb 4th:
S 2009-0700h (first time no crying at BT)
A 4.41 - still wanted to play at 4.25, forced to WD
S 1.24h - refused to resettle so gotten up, no crying, good mood
A 2.48h - fell asleep in car
S 1554-1634 then again 1648-1704 both in car
A 3.09h
S 2013h no crying at BT but woke crying after 11pm, easily resettled

Feb 5th
Awake in crib on and off from 6am
PU 0700
A 4.30h irritable at 4.22 so started WD, no resistance in crib
S 1130-1250 woke up sitting in crib again, wont resettle, not-so-good mood
A 3.40 WD started at 3.18 but still wanted to play; APOP +++ then crib

He is still sleeping but I expect him to wake after 30-45m.

Ive tried 4.15 but lots of crying and now we are at 4.30 AT. Seems like a huge jump in 2 weeks so i am worried he is OT. I've been tweaking and re-tweaking our routine since we got home and i cant seem to get it right. I plan on sticking to 4.30 AT tomorrow and get ready to WTS but WTS hasnt really been good to us in the past... until I found the right AT. Please help! I would like my 2-hr napper back :(

BTW, he is currently on a leap, cut 4 teeth the past 2 weeks and I have been medicating just to rule out pain, very mobile now and learning more syllables... He can transition from sit to stand but has never done it in crib. Oh, and he is now 10mos and has always been on LSN side (13-13.5h sleep in 24h on a good day). Weve had SA as well but it has gotten better then past few days but i still stay a bit longer with him during BT then plan on GW.

Thanks for any suggestions in advance!

Edit: 2nd nap today lasted 40mins. 2.45 AT and he’s asleep at BT with no resistance, left awake in crib with no crying yay!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 01:02:48 am by ZanesOTmom »

Offline ZanesOTmom

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 94
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2018, 19:28:28 pm »
JUST to add, he slept at 1956-0705 but I heard him talking at 0500-0600.

PU 0705
A 4.30
S 1135-1258 (1.28h)

I was at the crib ready to pat for wts but he opened his eyes then started crawling! Definitely good mood. So UT?? Could he really need more than 4.30 AT right now? Such a huge jump from 4 2 weeks ago...

Offline becj86

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 346
  • Posts: 10859
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 05:30:46 am »
Very much sounds like UT to me - nap getting shorter, getting cranky about still being in bed, not resettling (though that can be OT as well if you let him get worked up before you assist with resettling), still wanting to play, etc. The long happy NW is also pointing towards UT.

Yes, he certainly can be ready for >4.5hr A time at 10 months.

Keep in mind that sometimes LOs of this age have a temporary reduction in sleep needs, so if his A time does increase and he does well, don't be totally surprised if he needs to drop his A time back down by 15mins or so in the coming weeks.

Offline ZanesOTmom

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 94
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2018, 08:28:18 am »
Alrighty, and I’m back... here’s our current EASY:

PU 0700 then milk
0815 breakfast
0930 top-up
1130 lunch
1235-1240 nap (5.35-5.40 AT)
S 1.40-2h
1420 milk
1530 snack
S 1720 forced WD, 10-20min Capped nap
2h AT to bed (more or less)
1815 supper then BT milk
BT 1945

The past (at least) two days, he’s been awake around 3-3:30am for about an hour or so. Would babble for few minutes then just quietly awake. He hasn’t been especially cranky during the day but I’ve been medicating at BT. 7th and 8th could cut soon. Not sure if it’s teething or time to ditch the CN? DH said he stretched him for 3.5h before CN and he didn’t seem tired. But he’s always took the nap... I haven’t stretched him for more than 3.5h.... really scared of OT and NWs. And since I started documenting his sleep, he’s never slept more than 13.5h in total except when held. The past 1-2m, he’s only slept 12-13h in total... 13.5h only to catch up on rare occasions. Oh and he’s going to be 1yo on the 31st.

Help?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 08:45:49 am by ZanesOTmom »

Offline becj86

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 346
  • Posts: 10859
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 04:25:16 am »
Hmmm... would you be comfortable trying a 1 nap day if he does a 2hr nap and throwing in a CN if he sleeps 1:40ish or needs it to make the day later (sometimes day can creep earlier if you get a couple of one nap days in a row)? I'd be inclined to do BT ~7:30 at the latest for a one nap day though.

Offline ZanesOTmom

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 94
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2018, 11:38:02 am »
Hi. Thanks Beck. I can try that.

Yesterday was a crazy day. We’ve moved things around the past week due to DST. His day went like this:
PU 0730
A 5.30 (was falling asleep I guess due to long NWs the previous nights)
S 3.20h!!!!!!! His longest before was 2.40
BT 2040 (4.20h AT)

He STTN and no NWs! We had to wake him at 0730. Poor him. Must have been OT but hopefully now we’re caught up. We’ll reset and try your suggestion (8pm BT on 1 nap). It definitely makes sense. Thank you!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 12:30:07 pm by ZanesOTmom »

Offline becj86

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 346
  • Posts: 10859
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2018, 20:42:24 pm »
Fingers crossed for you. This can be quite a messy transition as its usually long but hopefully he can do some good long naps and get through. Sometimes he'll need a second nap, so don't worry if that happens - very few babies move to one nap in one go.

Offline ZanesOTmom

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 94
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 01:19:06 am »
Hi. Just wondering if you shave any insight to our current situation...

We’ve been on one nap 2/3 of the time the past 2-3 months. We’ve been battling hour-long NWs the past month, tried VEBT, EBT it was hit or miss; medicating didn’t seem to help. He’s always been on long then short nap during the transition but the past 4 days, he’s been micronapping (20-35mins) in the am then taking 2+hrs in pm. He just seems so tired in the morning... should I let this continue as he’s getting the most sleep (13+hrs) in a long time? No more NWs and instead of waking around 6am, it’s been after 7am which is perfect. It just seems odd that we haven’t had one nap in almost a week...

Could it be because he’s more mobile? He’s been walking nonstop the past week. Do I keep doing 2 naps until something breaks? No nap refusals, just BT getting late but it’s ok for us.

Offline becj86

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 346
  • Posts: 10859
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Tweak with AT needed?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2018, 10:29:43 am »
Could it be because he’s more mobile? He’s been walking nonstop the past week. Do I keep doing 2 naps until something breaks? No nap refusals, just BT getting late but it’s ok for us.
Yep, just stick with what's working. I did say that often LOs who go to 1 nap this early will go back to 2 naps here and there. Quite often, the short AM/long PM nap thing is just something that has to happen before getting to one nap all the time as the short PM gets refused and LO ends up OT.