Author Topic: How to deal with 5am NW  (Read 1572 times)

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Offline Mumofboys17

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How to deal with 5am NW
« on: December 22, 2017, 06:11:46 am »
Hi

Over the last few days my DS has started to wake at 5 for his night feed. He goes to bed at 7, has a dreamfeed at 10. He was waking between 3-4am, then between 4-4.30 but now we are at 5am.

I have to give him a full bottle to settle him, so I give him a top yo at his normal morning feed time of 7ish so we keep on our feeding schedule. He seems to settle ok and falls back to sleep ( I have to hold him upright for 30 mins due to his reflux) but as soon as he goes back in his cot he wakes up - problem is this is around 5.30-5.45. He was waking around 6.30-7 before which worked well but now I find I have to hold him to get him to have that sleep. I have to put him down at 6 as my other DS tebds to wake shortly after and I like to get a shower in before p he leaves the house.

Am I taking the right approach by feeding him a full bottle then giving a top up? Any ideas on how to get that sleep after the 5am feed to be longer? As his first nap of the day is now so early it really throws out the great routine we were on.

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2017, 07:13:28 am »
This might be a time to drop the DF and bring the NW for feeding earlier again... then he will go back to sleep a bit more easily :)

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2017, 13:53:30 pm »
Ok, I see how that could work, I assume if he starts waking twice again we would put the DF back in?

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2017, 19:09:53 pm »
Yes, you could. It's just a tricky time of day for them to wake when they've had so close to enough sleep. He'd probably wake around 3/4am without the DF and go back to sleep.

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 17:12:54 pm »
Didn't get to try this as the next night he woke at 2 and then 5.45 and has been doing for the last few days even with a dream feed. Still getting 45 min naps too, even though looking tired at 1hr 30 so put down and cries for about 10 mins. When he gets laid in his cot he is particularly upset - could this be UT?

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2017, 18:45:01 pm »
Most likely it is UT. How old is he?

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2017, 21:18:24 pm »
He's 13 weeks tomorrow.

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 22:20:25 pm »
I'd shoot for 1:40 A time instead of 1:30 and see how that goes.

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2017, 09:40:45 am »
I will try this, thank you. It's 1hr 40 to be asleep isn't it? So if he cries for around 5-7 mins I shoukd put down at 1hr 30?

What are the signs that a 45 nap is OT or UT?

Thanks once again for your help

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2017, 21:15:33 pm »
Ok, so today I watched for all the signs and I found that at 1hr 20-1hr 30 he was showing signs of tiredness and I put him down and he went down quite easily - we had 2 good naps of 2hrs, and one nap of 45 mins. However he has been terrible since putting him down at bedtime, he has been terrible, waking up every 20 mins then when he did finally go to sleep he only lasted 45 minutes. I am starting to wonder if he is a low sleep needs baby - the data we get 4 X 45 min naps, he is such a good sleeper from his bedtime.

I'm finding it hard thus time as ds1 fell in to the routine quite quickly and was a good nap per and night sleeper!

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2017, 09:28:56 am »
What are the signs that a 45 nap is OT or UT?
45mins is the sign that its UT - OT is 30mins generally speaking.

What did his day look like today? Usually waking in the early hours of the evening shortly after BT is either OT at BT or overstimulation which is often related to older children +/- dad coming home and is difficult to avoid. Waking every 20mins can be pain also... wind?

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2017, 14:17:33 pm »
Hi,

There's definitely something going on as previously he would settle in about 5-10 mins of being put down and now he is crying a lot harder and wanting the dummy, even DH has noticed it. We've been trying not to use the dummy for past 2-3 weeks for sleep and it had been going really well, with us only using maybe once or twice in that time.

So far today

Woke at 6.45

Put down at 8.25, not settled by 8.45 so offered dummy and went to sleep quite quickly. Got 40 mins

Woke up 9.15 (assume OT)

Put down at 10.30  ( with dummy so was asleep within 5 mins) and slept until 11.45

Falling asleep on bottle at 12.45 so finished feed and out in Moses basket, fell asleep quickly with dummy (he seems to really want it) woke 40 mins later with a really distressed sounding cry, went to resettle and needs the dummy but it's in and out in and out. I think he wants to be asleep but is struggling. His arms are flailing all over the place and rubbing his face etc.

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 20:07:00 pm »
Rest of day....

Finally resettled after 15-20mins and slept until 3.10

Went back down at 4.30 but would not settle at all, dummy in and out, finally got him up at 5.30 but was happy enough.

Milk at 6.30, fell asleep on bottle but woke up when put in Moses basket. Was smiling and examine hands for ages but moaning, took dummy and fell asleep at 8pm.

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 22:15:27 pm »
6:45 - WU
8:25 - pd
8:45 S (OT nap)
9:15, WU
10:30 - S
11:45 - WU (UT nap)
12:45 - S
1:25 woke, resettled after 15-20mins
3:10 - WU (2ish hr nap, broken)
4:30 - pd... no nap
6:30 asleep with feed, woke when pd (probably quite OT by this point, so easily woken)
8 - asleep for the night

Alrighty, so I've just translated that day for clarity for me.

Yes, he was likely OT by 2hr A time, hence the 30min nap - its too much for a 3mo baby, really. It will probably be just right in a few short weeks when he turns 4mo though.

You then fell into the classic trap of shortening the next A time too much and he took an UT nap - just slightly UT, mind you. What I'd suggest for him at the moment is 1:40-1:45 A time, with a reduction to 1:30 after a short nap.

Ideally, you would feed him when he wakes from a nap - that gives you both some perdictabilty in your day about what's coming next... and stops the old falling asleep in the middle of A time beacuse he's feeding.

3.10Went back down at 4.30 but would not settle at all, dummy in and out, finally got him up at 5.30 but was happy enough.
So here he had a relatively good nap and then a short 1:20 A time - so he was UT when you put him down and OT by the time you got him up and very OT at 6:30 when he fell asleep feeding and woke when put down.

Give this a go: 1:40-1:45 A time, with a reduction to 1:30 after a short nap; and see what happens. I think if you can keep that consistent for a few days, things should fall into place for a little while.

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2017, 02:55:02 am »
Thank you so much, I'll definitely try that, he's so different to my first - you just assume you're going to get one of the same!

As he cries for 5-7 mins generally before sleep, do I put him down st 1hr 40, or at 1hr 30 so he's asleep for 1hr 40.

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2017, 03:08:12 am »
Well, I think he may have been crying because he was UT. I think if you put him down at 1:40ish and shush/pat, he should be asleep pretty quickly. The idea of shush/pat is to help LO learn to fall asleep when they're tired - they don't really know what tired feels like so they need to learn that from you, yk?

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2017, 07:28:44 am »
Brilliant, thanks for all your advice. Going to work on it this week and see how it goes.

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2018, 11:09:55 am »
Keep us posted :)

Offline Mumofboys17

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2018, 15:35:36 pm »
Hi, I'm back having tried numerous things, but it's all gone wrong again! DS is 17 months this week.

We have a few problems which I am sure are all related -

Return of the 45 minute nap - this seems to be happening every nap now which makes me think a push in A time is required again, he's currently doing 2hrs and another 5-10 mins crying (screaming) in his cot, so thinking of trying 2hr 15 and maybe pulling it back if overtired?

Sometimes at the 45 minute mark he cried out but seems to go back to sleep but then at the 1hr mark he cried out again and sometimes will cry and cry and other times will drift for 10 mins then cry again etc. Often we end up getting him up as he seems quite distressed but once he is downstairs he seems to be happy? I did once just sit on the room with him with my handle genetic on him, after 30 mins of crying out etc he fell asleep and was in such a deep sleep that when I woke him, he didn't want to wake up!

Early waking, we have lots of wake ups between 5am and 6am, he tends to want to go to bed at 6.30pm which is fine with me, so I don't mind a wake up post 6am, it's the 5-5.30am I'm not keen on. He has a dreamfeed at 10pm and for a few nights we have gone all the way to the 5-6am waking so, however I'm reluctant to take the dreamfeed away just yet as we did that a few weeks ago and it made things worse as he seemed to wake up more! So we put it back in. My first thought is that the increase in a time will see if it is linked to the early wake up, if not then we may have to drop the dreamfeed again. The issue is at the moment we are getting no consistency at night. Over the last 5 evenings we have had a few nights where he has gone through until at least 5, one night where he woke up at 3.30, another night at 2.30, and another night at 1.45, 4.15 and 5.45 ( he only took milk at one of these).

Not sure where we are going wrong but my gut says sorting the A time will help with the naps which will help with the nights?

Offline becj86

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Re: How to deal with 5am NW
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 08:02:54 am »
17 months
17 weeks? 7 months?

If you're getting 45min naps and earlier morning WUs, yep - probably worth giving the A time a nudge and seeing what happens.

If 17 weeks, this is a usual time for a growth spurt and those come with extra night feeds - that's just life. Often sorting the day will help with the night though, so worth giving your increase A time plan a shot.