6 months multiple NWs and 5am EW

[Ciuci]

Hi, I've tried looking for a solution among the other threads but couldn't find something that fits our situation.

DS is almost 6.5 months. We transitioned to 2 naps around the 6 month mark because he was going down difficult at bedtime, was waking up habitually at 23, 2 and waking up constantly at 5.

With around 3 hrs A time, we had only a couple of days in the beginning with 2 good naps of abt 1.5 hrs. For his 23 o'clock NW he learned to self settle, his 2am NW started to vary between 00.30 and 2.30, WU was for a few days 6-7.

But then gradually 1st nap got shorter and shorter from 1.5 hrs to 40 min (waking up happy) and WU back to 5-5.30 am. I tried increasing 1st A time in attempt to fix it, but it helped only with prolonging 1st nap, the rest is the same. Ihave a suspicion that he is OT from too long A time in the evening, but perhaps you have other ideas? Note: he is breastfed and I have no problem feeding 1-2 times at night. But it's the 5am waking that's bothering me and the 19-5 nights that I think are too short for a 6mo.

Our EASY in the last 24h:

Wu 5.40 and chatting happily in cot (he also makes a 'bomb' in the nappy at this time, so resettling is practically impossible, with or without changing)
E 6.30 bf
E 8.00 solids
S 9.00-10.15 (1h15m)
E 11.45 solids
S 13.20-14.45 (1h25m)
E 15.30 Bf
E 18.30 Bf - he didn't fall asleep at the breast, played a little in his cot afterwards
S 19.00
NW 21.15 whining and self-settled
NW 00.15 whining, didn't manage to self settle so I bf
NW 2.30 and play, at 3.00 Bf because he was getting agitated
WU around 5.30, I tried to settle back but no luck, he dozed another 10 min at 6 but finally was clear he would not go back to sleep even though he was rubbing his eyes

Two days before:

WU 5.40 and playing
E 6.15 Bf
E 7.45 solids
S 9.10-10.30 (1h20m)
E 11.30 solids
S 13.55-14.35 (40m)
E 15.00 bf
E 18.00 bf and fell asleep at the breast
NW 18.45 after only 35 min, self settled in 15 min
NW 22.10 self settled
NW 2.10 & bf
NW/WU 5.20 & bf, he didn't have transit so he fell back asleep at the breast. I put him in bed and ge woke up but resettled and slept another 50min
WU 6.45

Two days before that:

NW/WU 4.55 I bf and put back in cot, but he woke up and played, finally resettled by himself at 5.45 and slept another hour
WU 6.50
E 7.00 bf
E 8.15 solids
S 9.45-10.20 (35m). He woke up crying, I tried to resettle but no success
E 11.30 solids
S 13.50-14.30 (40m) same as morning nap
E 15.30 bf
E 18.30 bf and fell asleep at the breast at 18.50
NW 0.15 & bf
NW 3.45 & bf but then woke up again and self settled  at 4. 05
WU 6.10

The development leap is already behind us, he learned how to crawl on all fours. Now he's learning to sit down and stand up but at night I don't see him affected by it.

So, any clue on how I can keep two decent naps and fix the waking up before 6?

[becj86]

Hi, you've seen the clues - waking earlier in the morning and first nap getting progressively shorter... these are surefire signs he needs more A time first thing in the morning.

Again, the second nap is getting shorter just as the first one did - so give the next A time a bump as well and things should even out when you hit the sweet spot.

He's certainly OT at BT - hence the wakings shortly after BT. BT may get a bit later as you stretch those A times and naps get longer.

[Ciuci]

Ok so I'm somehow on the right track, just need to find the right A times.

Today he woke up at about 5.20 and dozed off for another 10 min at 6.00. He then went to sleep at 9.20, that's either nearly 4hrs since WU or 3h10m since dozing off. He slept 1h20m.

I will try a 3h10m A time and then shorter A time in the evening, as I also believe it's that which makes him unrestful in the early night.

Wish me luck!

[becj86]

Good luck!

If he is lying in his cot not doing much and dozes back off like he did this morning, I'd count that all as night with a long NW rather than 5:20 as his wake time for the day. I'd then count his A time from when he woke from the dozing.

Keep us posted

[Ciuci]

So he's now staying up nearly 4 hrs in the morning, doing only 35 min horribly OT naps, but still waking up at 5. I just can't seem to get this early waking out of his system!

In the past 2 days our EASY were:

Nw 4.40, manage to resettle and sleep 5.20-5.50
E 6.15 bf
E 8.15 solids
S 9.40-10.30 (50 min after 3.50 A time) woke up happy and chatty (UT sleep? Is it possible after such long A time at just 6.5 months??)
E 11.30 solids
S 14.00-14.40 (after 3.5 hrs A time), clearly OT, woke up crying, couldn't go back to sleep
E 15.30 bf & then solids
E 18.30 bf fell asleep at the breast
Nw 22.15 managed to resettle
Nw 1.00 bf
Nw 4.00 bf
Wu 5.30 didn't go back to sleep

E 6.15 bf
E 8.15 solids
S 9.20-9.55 (35 min clearly OT after 3.50 hrs A time, same as the day before but reaction completely different)
E 12.00 solids
S 13.40-14.15 (he was super awake and playing, I put him to sleep looking at the clock not at him, turned out he did only 35 min clearly OT after 3.45 hrs A time)
Managed to shh/pat back to sleep
S 14.20-14.55 (another 35 min, but wokw up happy)
E 15.30 bf
E 16.45 solids as snack
E 18.30 bf, fell asleep at breast but woke up when transfered in crib, went back to sleep at 19.00 a little too upset/OT for my taste
Nw 22.45 managed to resettle
Nw 00.45 bf
Nw 3.15 bf
Wu somewhere around 5.10, I guess happy at first and then started to protest, not sure because I was so tired I kept dozing off in between. At 6.00 I couldn't take anymore attempts to resettle and did forceful wake up

What are my options? I'm at a loss... Seems no matter when he wakes up at night, be it 3.00 or 4.15 and I bf him to make sure he doesn't wake from hunger, he still wakes up at 5/5.30, does #2 in his diaper and that's that.

Any ideas?

[becj86]

Is something waking him? Cold, noise, light?

E 18.30 bf fell asleep at the breastNw 22.15 managed to resettleNw 1.00 bfNw 4.00 bfWu 5.30 didn't go back to sleep

Sorry I didn't see this before! This night length - 11hr is pretty reasonable at this age. 5:30 is early in the morning for many people (including you, I imagine), but this is not an EW technically. You may have to shift his whole day later to get WU later.

I think 4hr is going to be too much for him A time wise for a little while. Perhaps work on 3:15 or so as your max. and observe for tired cues from say 3hr. So that means putting him down for a nap at 3:15 max. A time for a week or so to see what happens. I'm just concerned we've gone a bit too far with the pushing of the A times and he could get OT pretty quickly that way.

[Ciuci]

Nothing is disturbing him... He simply wakes up on the clock between 5:15-5:45 no matter when he goes to bed the night before.

EASY 2 days ago (Sunday):
WU 5:10 and nothing, absolutely nothing could resettle him
E 6:50 bf
S 8.30-9.05
E 9.15 solids & bf
S 12.05-12.35, woke up crying, I managed ro resettle him and did another 12.40-13.20
E 13.30 solids
E 15.00 bf
S 15.45-16.20 in the buggy
E 19.00 bf and asleep at the breast
NW 00.30 bf
NW 4.45 bf to make sure he falls asleep
WU 5.35

Yesterday (Monday), just after this:
E 6.00 bf
S 7.50-8.20 in the car (couldn't help it, we had some appointments in the morning)
E 8.30 solids
S 11.15-11.50 in the car
E 12.00 solids & bf
S 14.40-15.45
E 16.00 bf
E 18.15 some solids
E 18.45 bf, didn't fall asleep at the breast and then fussed and cried for more than 1h. It looked like separation anxiety, he would cry when I left the room and just look at me quietly when I was there, but wouldn't go to sleep even though he was exhausted
S 20.10 managed to fall asleep
NW 23.00 very upset again, same drill as at bedtime, took half an hour to resettle (pupd, shh/pat)
NW 2.45 bf
Nw 4.45 bf to make sure he falls quickly back asleep
Nw/attempt to WU 5.45, managed to resettle with shh and slept another hour 6.00-6.30
Final Wu 6.30

So these were not 11hrs nights and he got in total 11.30 hrs of sleep on Sunday (in 24h period) and 10.30 hrs yesterday. He normally needs 12.30-13.00 hrs of sleep within 24h period.

I'm afraid it's a habitual waking but I don't know how to address, not even w2s would help because he wakes by himself at 4 something and then still he's up at 5.30.

We will be traveling to the other side of the world at the end of the month and I can only hope that the 24h flight and the 11h time zone difference will somehow reset him and he will develop more normal sleeping hours, which fit also with the rest of the family...

[becj86]

I'm afraid it's a habitual waking but I don't know how to address, not even w2s would help because he wakes by himself at 4 something and then still he's up at 5.30.

I was thinking this as I was reading through your post. Hmmm. What to suggest? I think you can certainly cross your fingers for the big time change to help. It might. Perhaps if you were game, you could try wake to sleep at 3/3:30am which might shift the waking but if its genuine hunger, I don't think if necessarily will.

Have you ever tried a DF? Might shift his NWs around a bit too.

I'm clutching at straws here, really just suggesting anything that might change his night waking pattern in hopes the WU may change.

S 20.10 managed to fall asleepNW 23.00 very upset again, same drill as at bedtime, took half an hour to resettle (pupd, shh/pat) NW 2.45 bfNw 4.45 bf to make sure he falls quickly back asleepNw/attempt to WU 5.45, managed to resettle with shh and slept another hour 6.00-6.30Final Wu 6.30

This is a reasonably short night but he did resettle past 5:45am so maybe BT just has to be no earlier than 7:30 or something, such that 5:30 is not a reasonable time to wake.

What woudl fit best with your family?

[Ciuci]

It's getting worse and worse.. By now he's so utterly exhausted from the early wakings and chaotic sleeping, we're back to baby schedule. He's sleeping in OT burtsts of 30 min, waking up crying, cannot keep an A time of more than 2-2.30 hrs, I cannot read his cues anymore and cannor go by the clock anhmore either. Yesterday he slept 4x 30 min, each time waking up crying because he was still tired.

Today he woke up at 5.20, no chance of getting back to sleep. By 7.30 he was already cranky and rubbing his eyes. I managed to hold him out with breakfast, I put him down 8.20, at 8.30 he fell asleep and slept only 25 min!!! And he's playing and totally happy. What kind of sleep is that?? When do I put him to sleep again after a 25 min nap?? In an hour??

I am right now clueless on how to approach.

A 19-6/6.30 rhythm would be perfect for us. With a wu at 5.30 am, he needs to sleep latest at 8.45 (we're normally having breakfast then), his lunch would have to be at 10.30/11 (that's absolutely impossible and crazy at the same time. We have lunch at 11.30/12), then his 2nd nap around 13.30, his dinner at 16.30 and bedtime latest 18. We sit down for dinner at 18/18.30. It's absolutely impossible to fit his schedule 1h earlier.

[becj86]

Have you been able to resettle any of those short naps?

at 8.30 he fell asleep and slept only 25 min!!! And he's playing and totally happy. What kind of sleep is that??

This sounds like overstimulation to me.

If he does a short nap, ideally you would so an almost full A time, reduce by 15-20mins, generally.

Is he well?

[Ciuci]

He's fine, just sleep is an absolute disaster. He's up in the middle of the night and plays for about an hour, sometimes at 23.something, sometimes between 4 and 5...Naps are 30-35 min, wake-up is still 5-5.30, today he managed to finally go back to sleep at 6.30 after more than an hour playing alone in the crib.

I'm absolutely clueless. Early waking would be a sign of too short A time, night waking for playing for 1h in the middle of the night are a sign of what? And where do I start to fix things? Lenthening or shortening A time only led to 30 min naps and newborn schedule of 4 naps a day and multiple NW's. I really havr no clue how to help him and us.

[becj86]

I'm absolutely clueless. Early waking would be a sign of too short A time, night waking for playing for 1h in the middle of the night are a sign of what?

Same, too-short first A time, generally.

Can you resettle the 30min naps? Ideally, you'd keep the longer first A time consistent for 3-4 days at least and you'd resettle the 30min naps and he should get used to the longer A time and sleep better naps.