Help Needed with PU/PD end result

[Tracypeng]

Hi there,

I am new to this forum so have not got a chance to read through all the posts. I really need help with PU/PD and thank you in advance!

My DS is 6 months tomorrow and I've started sleep trained her using the PU/PD method 17 days ago and also tried to put her on EASY since then. What is the ideal process/result for putting your baby to sleep after training using the PU/PD method? As DS is still crying hard for all of her naps / bedtime. Good news is that i don't have to nurse her to sleep anymore, but the crying is hard to tolerate after 17 days. A typical process for DS is after going through the 4S ritual, I put her down and is able to walk away from her crib. DS will play a little while, she's just learned to rollover, so she rolls left then right, then eventualy onto her tummy, but couldn't roll back on her back. I have to walk over to help her roll back, then walk away. She will start rolling again, then me helping her again. This process goes on a few times, then finally she associates me flipping her over as forcing her to sleep, then starts crying. At which point, I couldn't walk away anymore, would comfort her by saying "it's time for bed", then putting my hands on her shoulders. She countinues crying and the crying escalates to short screams for a while, and eventually I will have to press both of my hands on her shoulders for her to calm down and tired enough to drif to sleep. But then she can never sleep for more than 35 mins. I don't quite have to pick her up anymore (which I had to do for the first 7 days or so), but she's so sad every time. It takes me anywhere from 10 mins to 40 mins to get her down every time. My question is am I doing something wrong? Should I stay with her all the time until she falls asleep? By pressing both my hands on her shoulders, is that a new prop? Is this normal after 17 days of training? Will the crying last forever for all her naps? Thought she should be able to play by herself for a while then drift to sleep on her own. But this only happens to me a few times when she's really tired. I think she's developing a fear for sleep and sometimes starts crying before I put her down.

Also list my day below to help:

W: 7-7:30
E: 7-7:30
A: 7:30 - 10
S: 10-10:30 (or later depends on how long it takes to get her settle)
E: 10:30 or 11am as trying to get her on a 4 hour rountine
A: 11-1:30
S: 1:30-2
E: 3 (with 1 hr of A before)
A: 3-4:30
S: 4:30 - 5 (catnap)
Bedtime 7:30

She will wake once or twice every night to feed. I am not offering a dreamfeed as she's not gaining weight, so don't want to take away feeds.

Thanks and any advice that can help reduce the crying is much appreciated as it's heart broken!

Tracy

[jessmum46]

Hi there   and hope you've had a lovely Christmas (if you celebrate).

What is the ideal process/result for putting your baby to sleep after training using the PU/PD method? As DS is still crying hard for all of her naps / bedtime.

Do you mean what should you expect if PUPD is 'working'?  In an ideal world the idea is that you should be able to put your LO down into bed fully awake and they settle themselves to sleep by themselves with no help or intervention from you.  Crying hard every time after 17 days suggests to me something is a bit off as I'd expect that to have improved....what was your reason for wanting to start EASY/PUPD in the first place?

Routine looks ok in terms of A time, 3h or so?  But I think if the first nap is short I would be trying for the second one a bit earlier to try to combat the OT.  Catnap may well be needed for now if both naps are short but I would look towards dropping that in the next 3-4 weeks or it can cause issues in itself.

S will play a little while, she's just learned to rollover, so she rolls left then right, then eventualy onto her tummy, but couldn't roll back on her back. I have to walk over to help her roll back, then walk away.

Is she upset when she gets onto her front?  If she is happy I would probably just leave her to it - around this age both of mine started to sleep on their tummies and once they can get there by themselves it is less of an issue from the safe sleep point of view.  If not though you are doing the right thing, just turn her over and then step back again. 

Should I stay with her all the time until she falls asleep? By pressing both my hands on her shoulders, is that a new prop?

Yes at this stage I would stay wth her until she sleeps.  Once she is happier with the process you can work on getting out of the room sooner.  You don't have to be physically connected to her though - as you rightly point out this can become another prop as it is something she is dependent on you for rather than doing herself. 

You mention that it takes 10-40 mins to get her to sleep - is it different in the morning to later on in the day?

Let me know your thoughts and we will see if we can help any more

Oh and just to clarify (sorry I know the abbreviations can be a nightmare!) - DS = dear son, DD = dear daughter

[Tracypeng]

Hi Katherine,

Thank you so much for your reply, it is very helpful! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well!

I am starting EASY / PUPD as I used to nurse my DD (thanks for the correction!) to sleep, but it stopped working as she refuses to nurse often and cries. Her main issue is also the short naps. She rarely sleep for more than 45 mins since she's 2 months old. So thought by teaching her to fall asleep independently it might help with the short naps as well.

Yes, her routine is slowly approaching 3h of awake time. Although I try to put her down at around 2.5hr in hope for longer naps. With 3h wake time and the short naps, it's getting extremely hard for her to sleep for more than 13hrs a day (with a total of 3 naps)

In terms of the PUPD, it has improved a bit over the last few days, but I think I am becoming a prop. In order to avoid crying, I don't walk away anymore, she will play with my hands and suck on them. If I pull my hands away, she would start fussing / crying, then I will comfort her until she's tired. I would then pat her and she can then fall asleep. Sounds like I need to remove myself from the crib slowly to give her a chance to sooth herself. There might be some crying, but I guess that's needed for her to learn to fall asleep by herself. The naps are still very short though. It's now about 30-35 mins (shorter than before the sleep training). She gets upset when she couldn't roll back, so I had to help her to roll back.

I havent' noticed any difference in time required to put her to sleep throughout the day. But will keep a record and let you know.

Any suggestion on combating with the short naps? She's generally happy throughout the day, but her total sleep time is around 12.5 hrs a day now.

Thanks a lot!

Tracy

[jessmum46]

How are things going?

Yes, her routine is slowly approaching 3h of awake time. Although I try to put her down at around 2.5hr in hope for longer naps.

I'd probably go for putting her down closer the 3h.  At 2.5h she may not well be tired enough to either settle or sleep for long, which might explain why you are getting resistance and short naps