7 month old EASY review-when should I be feeding

[mommykay410]

Just looking for a glance at DS's schedule to see when you think I should be feeding him, both BF and solids.  With the way it is right now, I think he is getting too much in a short period of time in the evening, which I'm thinking could be part of the reason he is waking up 12 times a night with gas   

Here is a general day:
WU 7:30
E nurse anywhere between 7:30-8:30 depending on when we get downstairs from getting both him and DD ready
solids about an hour later (~9/9:30)
1st nap 11:10-12:40 (give on take on the wake up time from that, could be anywhere from 12:15-1:10)
E nurse when wakes, so say 12:50
solids around 2
(I sometimes will offer a topup BF about 45 mins before nap if he is fussy but he isn't always interested in much then)
2nd nap 3hr40min after wake, ~4:20-5 (has generally been waking after one sleep cycle ~35 mins, unless he had a short morning nap then will take a longer one, but is awake from it by no later than 5:30)
E nurse when wakes, but if it's late then I will only offer one side since it's close to BT feed
solids anywhere from 5:30-6 (thinking this is too late for dinner)
Then I take him up for bath around 6:30, nurse him around 7, often he falls asleep while I'm nursing him and I lay him down between 7:30-7:40 to sleep for the night. 
He then wakes numerous times kicking his legs, at which points I pick him up to burp him or just shushpat for a few minutes til he settles back to sleep. 

Last night he cried at the following times:  8:50, 9:15, 10:10, 10:45, 11:10, 12:30, 1:05, 2:10 (I fed him at this waking then slept from 2:50-4:55), woke again 5:30, 6:10, 6:30, 7:10 for the day but dozed a bit when I nursed him right away til 7:25.

I'm 99% sure it's gas that's waking him at all those times because of the leg kicking and the fact that he burps a few times as soon as I pick him up.  Or will pass gas when I nurse him in the night.  He has not rolled over at night yet but I'm hoping that when he learns to sleep on his belly that may help.  But I can't stand getting up that many times every single night for months now. 

Anyways...so at what times do you suggest I feed him to help alleviate the 3 feeds in a short time before bed?

[becj86]

Hi

How recently did he start solids? Has he woken a lot before he started having solids in the evening or is that around the time it started?

I think if you drop the solids in the evening and wait a week or two before re-introducing, you might find he copes better - some babies struggle with the sensation of solids moving through their gut. Two sessions of solids at 7 months is absolutely fine. IME with gas, LO won't resettle with a bit of shush/pat because its painful.

[mommykay410]

He has been eating solids since 4.5 months, but only started having the third solid meal about a month ago.  He has been waking multiple times a night for long before that, although it's hard to tell when the waking was from his itching or when it was from gas.  The itching is under control now, so it's definitely the gas issue.  I remember DD having an issue like this as well when she was a tad older than DS, but with her it was only one extra waking and I could give her gas drops quick and she would pass gas and go back to sleep fairly easily..never this many wakings. 

Tonight I tried nursing him before his bath so that he had some extra time to move around and work out some of that gas before laying down to sleep, but he was already up crying once at 8:15.  I burped him and he went back to sleep, but obviously that plan didn't work.     I will stop giving him the dinner solids meal starting tomorrow and see if that makes a difference at all.

Between these months of night wakings and still not transitioning consistently on his own for naps, I'm going to lose it soon lol. 

[becj86]

Oh, I didn't realise it was you posting! He's still up all the time, eh? Have you tried a food diary to see if he may have an intolerance? I guess if there aren't any good nights, its hwrd to tell what's setting him off.

[mommykay410]

Haha yup it's me again!    I figured I'd start a new post since the other one was on a different topic page.  Yes, he is still up all the time.  I have done tummy massage, gas drops, pick him up to burp, I've been nursing him before his bath the last few nights so that he has time to work out the extra gas during the rest of his bedtime routine, and now the last two nights I didn't give him the solids dinner like you suggested.  Last night was absolutely awful at the beginning of the night.  I slept the whole night on his floor because every time I went back to lay in my bed thinking I was in the clear for a bit he would cry again.  And I could tell it was discomfort and could hear his belly gurgling sometimes.  I laid him down for bed at 7:45 and patted him til 8 til he fell asleep.  Then was in again at 8:20, 9:40, 9:55, 10:10, 10:40, 11, 12:55 then finally slept til 3:55 when I fed him on one side, then slept from 4:30-7:50.  He was kicking his legs in that last part of the morning til wake up and I was just waiting to have to pat him, but thankfully he stayed asleep through. 

Today he shockingly actually slept through both of his naps without waking at transition for the first time in weeks/months, so hoping that maybe we are working our way out of that but the night issue is so much worse.  Tonight I didn't give him the 3rd meal again and nursed him early, and he burped so many times before I laid him down for bed at 7:25, but I had to shush/pat him right away.  He didn't fall asleep til 7:50 and I had to pick him up to burp him at one point in there because he was arching his back and kicking his legs.  We'll see how long he sleeps this time. 

A food diary for myself or for him?  I was off dairy for 3 weeks prior to the holidays to see if that made a difference in his eczema since his cow's milk allergy, but I don't think it made much of a difference.  I have read that dairy could be an issue with LO's digestion while BFing, but obviously that wasn't his issue since this has been every night for as long as I can remember.  He had one good night when he only woke up once to eat and then went right back down til morning about a month ago but that was the only night in a very long time.

[becj86]

Probably for both of you given he's drinking your milk and eating solids.

Off dairy is a bit different from completely eliminating traces of dairy. That's much more restrictive. There's also a fair amount of cross-reaction with soy proteins for if you were using aoy alternatives that may be partly why you saw little change. Did that make a difference to his sleep at night?

Poor little fellow to be so uncomfortable at night and you must be exhausted!!

[mommykay410]

Exhausted is an understatement haha.  I don't even know how I'm still functioning at this point.  He must be getting enough sleep somehow though because he is happy during the day and he is growing.  But the gas is definitely making him super uncomfortable.  I'm guessing that skipping the dinner solids is not the trick since he has issues in the early morning hours from 5 am on and that meal would be way out of his system by then.  So it's either the act of nursing or my milk itself or just his immature digestive system at this point I guess.  I could possibly try a bottle at bedtime?  But he may take in even more air that way since he isn't used to a bottle that often. 

When I eliminated dairy there were no traces of it in my diet at all, with the exception of one day at a holiday party that I couldn't avoid.  I had read about soy also being a potential issue too, so I used soy-free alternatives for the dairy.  I didn't notice a difference in his sleep at all during those weeks-he was up just as much as he is now.  And I don't really think it helped with his skin either, as he was still getting patches while I was restricting.  His skin is clear for the most part now, but I think that's just because of the steroid cream and moisturizer. 

And so much for him developmentally being able to sleep through nap transitions at 6 months because I am still stuck patting him most days.  And he still can't fall asleep on his own either, which he used to be able to do from early on.  I have been having to shushpat him to fall asleep for at least his pm nap and at bedtime.  There were a few days where I was able to just shush from the door but lately that is not enough. 

This kid is going to send me to an early grave at this point haha.  I don't know how much more of this I can take.  I thought for sure he would've outgrown at least one of these sleep issues by now, especially since he has no props.

[becj86]

When I eliminated dairy there were no traces of it in my diet at all, with the exception of one day at a holiday party that I couldn't avoid.

Yes, ok, so you did eliminate traces, etc. I guess the other things to point out is that is can take 12 weeks to see a difference - it can take up to 6 weeks to get out of your system even when you're not consuming any, then another 6 to get out of his system, so if you weren't seeing a miracle in 3 weeks, that's possibly part of the reason. Or maybe he's struggling with something else entirely - like tomato or egg or something.

What is his EAS like at the moment? He may be UT - that can mean difficulty getting off to sleep for naps and with transitions too.

[mommykay410]

Sheesh by the time I'd be able to tell if it made a difference he will be on regular milk haha.  His EAS from the past 2 days was:

previous night S 7:30, pat at 9:15, 9:55, 1:35, 3:55 E, pat at 4:20, 5:45, 6:15, 6:50, 7
WU/E 7:45
solids 10:00
nap 11:30-12:50 (had to shushpat to fall asleep, and had to pat from 12-12:05 at transition)
E 1:00
solids 2:00
nap 4:35-5:05 (had to shushpat to fall asleep
E 5:10
E 6:35, then bath and down in bed at 7:20.  I had to hold his arm a bit and shh to settle him but he ultimately fell asleep on his own at 7:45
then had to pat at 9:05 & 9:20 but luckily he then slept til 3:25 when I fed him on one side, laid him down awake at 4, had to pat him at 4:25, slept 4:40-5:50 then had to pat him on and off 3-4 times til 7:20 when he woke up

E 7:20
solids 9:00
nap 11:05-12:30 (had to shh at the door to settle to sleep but slept thru transition)
E 12:35
solids 2:00
nap 4:15-4:45 (had to shh at door to settle to sleep, tried to pat from 4:45-5 but wouldn't settle back to sleep so gave up)
E 5:05
and that's where we are at now.

Last night was the first that he has given me a long stretch like that at the beginning of the night, minus the little pats at 9.  But the early morning pattings are what drives me nuts.  I'm pretty sure it's still gas at those times because he is kicking his legs and as soon as I get him up he burps. 

I'm pretty sure I have him morning nap time right when I take him up at 3hr35mins and he is asleep within 5 mins with just shushing or sometimes on his own, and he can sleep through that one.  When he doesn't sleep through that nap it's usually OT from trying to wait a bit longer to take him up since he cries at 30mins.  I can't figure out the right time to put him down for his afternoon nap though because he can never seem to sleep through that one or fall asleep on his own, and he doesn't show any sleepy cues prior to that nap either.

[becj86]

I'm pretty sure I have him morning nap time right when I take him up at 3hr35mins and he is asleep within 5 mins with just shushing or sometimes on his own, and he can sleep through that one.  When he doesn't sleep through that nap it's usually OT from trying to wait a bit longer to take him up since he cries at 30mins.  I can't figure out the right time to put him down for his afternoon nap though because he can never seem to sleep through that one or fall asleep on his own, and he doesn't show any sleepy cues prior to that nap either.

I think your assessment there is correct. That PM A time - 3:45 is probably a bit much given he had that 30min waking there too. I think 3.5hr should be appropriate and really, if he will take a 45min-1hr nap at that time, that's your day done. you're approaching the age at which the second nap will start getting shorter anyway, so try not to worry too much about that one being 1.5hr, so long as he's getting one long nap in the day.

[mommykay410]

Ok, I will try the 3.5 hours tomorrow for 2nd nap.  I really don't worry much about that nap anymore like you said since I know it's on the way out.  That's why I don't bother patting him for it most days unless I can tell that he is still tired and has a chance of going back to sleep.  If it's pushing 5:00 I don't usually bother unless his morning nap was short.  His pm nap has always been on the shorter side.

[becj86]

Sounds good.

[mommykay410]

Well I put him down at 3.5 hrs AT for his pm nap today and he fell asleep on his own for the first time in ages!  He only slept 35 mins but his morning nap was just shy of 2 hours so I didn't expect a long pm nap.  I think he is finally getting used to me feeding him early at bedtime since today I only had to shush next to his crib to settle him for bed.  He has already been up once though an hour after he fell asleep, so we'll see how long he sleeps this time.  I ordered one of the weighted sleepsacks that I've been seeing advertised, so I'm interested to see if that makes any difference.

[becj86]

Great that he fell asleep on his own keep us posted re: sleep sack

[mommykay410]

Well we're only one night in on the sleepsack and it hasn't been any help yet.  I will give it a few more days and see if it makes a difference. 

But I called the pediatrician today to see if there was anything she could recommend for his gas, and she said to give him probiotic drops (which I have given him a few times but not consistently), and to not go in to him every time he wakes at night so he learns to self-soothe because it could be out of habit, but to let him fuss and go in maybe every other time  Not the advice I was hoping for.  But I'm sort of wondering if she may have a bit of a point that some of those wakings with gas may be becoming a habit?  I am definitely not going to just ignore his cries at those times though, so what would BW recommend that I do to see if maybe they are habitual?  At this point, everytime he cries out at night I go in (sometimes I wait just a minute to see if he settles) and shushpat til he settles then gradually let off til he falls back asleep, or I do tummy massage/bicycle his legs if it seems to be that he is trying to work out gas.  Is he waking because he needs me to pat/shush him back to sleep?  Sometimes he swats my hand away when I am trying to pat him so I don't know if it's what he really wants, but when he keeps crying I feel like just shushing isn't enough.  I only occasionally pick him up to see if he will burp and then lay him right back down and continue patting if he is crying. 

Last night he went down at 7:15, I shushed to settle and he fell asleep at 7:35, woke at 10:10 and I patted til 10:20, woke at 10:30 and patted again til 10:50, woke at 1:20 and I tried to pat but then gave him gas drops and nursed him at 1:30; He fell back to sleep (after more patting) from 2:40-4:45 then cried again at 5:40, 6:20, 6:35, 6:55, and at 7 I got him up and nursed him and he dozed til 7:15 when he was up for the day.  I get up and pat him right away at those early morning times because I'm afraid if I don't get to him and settle him down that he is going to end up being up for the day or waking DD since she is a light sleeper in the early morning. 

I thought about maybe just giving him water to drink when he wakes in the middle of the night so that he isn't taking in the air from nursing, but I've read mixed things about that when I tried to look it up online.  I don't want to be depriving him of the extra food if he needs it.  I would try just giving him a bottle but I haven't had many opportunities to pump during the day to have that extra supply to give him then.  And I don't know what kind of formula I could substitute with his allergy, and then that could cause other issues.    

Ugh, sorry for the long post, I'm just so at a loss with what to do with him and this has been going on for so long.