Author Topic: 8 months still having issues :(  (Read 708 times)

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Offline mommykay410

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8 months still having issues :(
« on: January 27, 2018, 13:55:53 pm »
Me again...I feel like I've been posting constantly on here for the last 8 months, but I just don't know what to do with this kid.  He just cannot get his sleep right.   :'(  I have finally starting getting him to fall asleep on his own at night and for naps in the last few days, so I was hoping that was going to make a difference but it hasn't.  I had been shushing and patting him to sleep but switched to just shushing and saying "go to sleep" from across the room and now just need the occasional "go to sleep" just to remind him if he is fussing a bit too much.  But he still wakes up way too much at night and for naps I feel like his sleep cycles keep getting shorter and shorter. 

He used to wake at 40 mins, then 35 mins needing to be patted and then would wake up at 1hr10mins on the dot to end his morning nap.  The last 2 days though it's been 1 hour on the dot and nap is over.  For his afternoon nap he will not sleep longer than 35 mins no matter what, and sometimes only 25 mins.  I don't bother wasting my time patting him for the pm nap anymore because I know it will just frustrate me and he will not go back to sleep and will be gone in a few months anyways.  He was at a 3hr35min A time for a while, and I was hesitant to push it because I was having to pat him at 30 mins to settle for OT.  But last week I pushed to putting him down at 3hr45min figuring it was time for a push.  That helped for 2 days of good morning naps that he slept through on his own, but now I'm back to having to pat in the middle.  30 mins used to be a sure sign of OT and he would be quite difficult to settle back to sleep, taking 20+ mins, but yesterday he settled pretty quick then and woke at an hour, so I'm worried that now his sleep cycle is only 30 mins? 

So my nap questions are: what can I do to get him sleeping through his morning nap consistently?  Should I push his A time even further?  And should I do anything about his pm nap?  His A time for that is 3hr30mins as suggested on here because he was having trouble settling for it a few weeks ago.  He is only getting a total of 1hr40mins of daytime sleep with the occasional longer morning nap maybe one a week if I'm lucky.

Nights are a complete disaster.  He falls asleep at 7:30, on his own the past few days.  Then he wakes sometime in the 8-9:00 hour and can usually settle himself then the past few nights.  Then wakes around 10 and can't self-settle so I have to pat him then.  From then last night he woke at 11:30, 12:05, 2:15 (nursed him at this waking), then slept til 5:05 and had to pat him on and off every 5-15 mins until 6:35 when I finally just got him up and nursed him so he would fall back to sleep til 7:20. 

The most frustrating part of the night is from 4-7:30, as that's when he is unsettled every 5-30 minutes every night for months now.  I am 99% sure it is gas causing these wakings because he passes gas every once in a while throughout and sometimes arches his back.  I've been getting him out to nurse him back to sleep once it hits 6:45/7 for a few weeks now just so he can get a little more sleep and not make the rest of his day start so early.  I just don't know what else to do to get him to sleep better at night, and I would love to sleep in my own bed again rather than on pillows on his floor.   :-\  Any thoughts?

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 8 months still having issues :(
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2018, 20:50:31 pm »
He sounds a little overtired to me - we got some 1h-1h10 naps when my LO used to crash through exhaustion.  However, I also wonder about one sort of discomfort as that is a lot of wakings.  My DS did similar when he was younger (despite being an independent sleeper) and we were quite late to realise he had a milk and soya allergy which caused a lot of discomfort and gassiness at night - hence poor sleeping then long but OT naps in the day from which he would wake miserable.  Does your LO have any symptoms at all that might make you think either food allergies or reflux could be a problem?  Typical (mild) symptoms of allergy would be eczema/dry skin, non-formed poos (green/mucousy or 'frothy') or getting bloated/gassy.  I may be totally wrong!  But perhaps worth considering if he rarely has settled sleep?
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Offline mommykay410

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Re: 8 months still having issues :(
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2018, 02:45:42 am »
Yes, he does have eczema and a milk allergy.  His eczema is mostly under control now thanks to steroid cream, oatmeal baths, and lots of moisturizer.  He is EBF, so as per the allergist's suggestion, I eliminated dairy from my diet for 3 weeks when we found out about the milk allergy, but it didn't seem to make a difference in his skin so I reintroduced it back into my diet.  He has not had any dairy on his own yet, although I am planning to try yogurt soon to see if he has any reaction. 

The early part of the night has gotten better over the last couple weeks now that he has finally been falling asleep independently and I have been nursing him before his bath so he has time to work out the extra burps before being stuck laying flat on his back.  But then I think the middle of the night nursing is what ends up causing the gas in those hours from 4:00 on since he isn't moving around and able to get all the gas out.  I've tried giving him gas drops before that feed but those don't do anything for him. 

Last night he was up a lot in the beginning of the night (asleep at 7:30, cried at 8:25, 9:20, 10:05, 12:15 when I nursed him and then he actually slept til 6:35 which hasn't happened in ages!  I could see on the monitor that he was awake and was just moving his arms around for a while and then started fussing at 6:55 so I went and nursed him (because I was not going to accept starting his day from 6:35 haha) and he fell back to sleep on me til 7:45.  But again he slept for an hour on the dot for his morning nap and 25 minutes for his pm one. 

I agree that he has to be super OT overall with that little of daytime sleep and such unsettled night sleep.  I'm just not sure how to get him caught up and back on track.  When I've looked at the sample schedules on the board I see that 2 naps of 1.5 hours is typical with A times of 3-3.5hrs.  DS is almost at a 4 hr A time and gets half that amount of nap sleep every day.  Today it took him a while to settle to sleep for his morning nap, so he did end up having a 4hr A time.  Do you think that there's anything else I can do schedule-wise to help him?  Or I'm just going to have to figure out how to tame his discomfort before that will even help?  I will bring it up again at his 9 month well visit, although when I called before and asked about gas issues they just told me to not pat him every time he cries so he can learn to self-settle and then he won't wake up as much  :(

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 8 months still having issues :(
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2018, 13:52:05 pm »
My understanding with dairy elimination is that you need to do is for 4 weeks minimum to see a difference, and that includes all dairy (even hidden dairy e.g. whey powder, casein etc which are added to many shop-bought products).  Often it is recommended you exclude soya also (be aware most shop-bought sliced bread has soya flour in it) as there is a big overlap between milk and soya allergy.  I wonder if it's worth giving it another go?  He may not see an immediate dramatic improvement in his skin but for a 4 week trial I'd have thought it worth it to see if it improves his gas and discomfort?  (Obviously discuss with your doctor though :) )

Also - I'm sure your doctor/allergist can give you more information but generally when reintroducing milk to the diet you wouldn't go straight for yoghurt.  Have you come across the milk ladder?  https://www.allergyuk.org/assets/000/001/297/iMAP_Final_Ladder-May_2017_original.pdf?1502804928  In general you need to wait for a time when he is well and symptom-free - it may be hard to tell if he is reacting to the milk if he is still in discomfort?

Routine wise it's hard if he's not comfortable to be honest as A time may be perfect but sleep may be short because of pain :(  Does he show tired signs any earlier than the time you put him down?

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Offline mommykay410

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Re: 8 months still having issues :(
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 19:50:12 pm »
I guess an additional week would've been helpful the first time then, although it was tough being around the time of the holidays so that's partially why I reintroduced after the 3 weeks.  I probably should do another round of elimination, as that is most likely what is causing the issues the more I think about it.  I did eliminate all traces of dairy when I did it the first time, and we avoid soy normally too, so that was not a part of my diet at that time either. 

We had an appointment at the allergist last week and he said that with the type of allergy he has that soy is not an issue though since they also tested for that allergy in the panel.  I asked him about doing butter and yogurt and then eventually milk when he is a year and he said to do it as they would a "challenge" for introducing allergy foods to kids in the office.  So if I did the yogurt I would give 1 tsp, wait 15 mins, give a Tbsp, wait 15 mins, give an ounce, wait a half hr, give the rest of the 4 ounce container, wait another half hour to watch for reactions like hikes, etc as we go.  I am a bit nervous about doing it at home so I haven't given it to him yet, but I did give him a little butter this week.  The main reason I wanted to give him the yogurt is just to have something of more substance than fruits and veggies for his solids meals since he seems to still be hungry after he is done with his meal (usually ~5 ounce of solids) He eats some chicken in the one puree, but he is still learning how to handle finger foods and chunks of food in his mouth.  He currently spits until any little pieces are out of his mouth. 

I have not seen that milk ladder but thank you for the link!  I will talk to the ped about it when we go the end of February.  I guess I will hold off on the yogurt until at least then and see what she says.  Especially if I need to wait til he is symptom-free because that could be a while at this rate since it seems he is always having some sort of issue-gas/itching.   :-\

As far as his routine, no he is not showing tired signs much prior to when I put him down, maybe just a few minutes when he will kind of zone out or rub his eyes.  As soon as I start walking up the steps with him and singing though he yawns.  Last night he had a great beginning of the night - didn't make a peep til 12:40 so I just fed him then and he went back to sleep at 2:30, but then was fussing at 3:40, 5, 6-6:30, and then 6:45 so I got him up and fed him then til 7.  I'm not sure if he fell back to sleep during those 15 minutes though because he was rubbing his eyes and yawning earlier than normal time before his nap this morning.  And he had trouble settling to sleep for that nap and had to be patted 45 mins in for almost a half hour before he settled back to sleep.  I got a total of 1.5 hrs for that nap in the end which is more than he's been giving me but still not a restful sleep.  So he is definitely OT.  But I'm sure he'll only sleep a half hour again this afternoon no matter how late or early I put him down it seems.