Starting easy/encouraging independent sleep 5 week old

[peepip]

Hi everyone, I have a 5 week old (and an 18 month old)and to make my life easier I figured I should start encouraging independent sleep now. My 18 month old napped in the baby harness for the first 3-4 months of his life and I just can’t do that again with a toddler!

I started today and it went mediocre at best... my older son is in daycare Tuesday Wednesday so I thought today would be a good day to start.

I started with shh/pat in his crib and he did fall asleep, but after I took my hands off of him he would wake up again within 5-10 minutes. This went on for a hour until it was eventually time to feed him again. After I fed him he fell asleep on me and I transferred him to the crib. He sort of woke up a little during the transfer but slept soundly (is still sleeping as I type).

His wake times now are around 1hr, maybe 5-10 mins more??

I guess what I’m looking for is some reassurance and definitely some guidance if anyone could be so kind.

My oldest son is very spirited so achieving this while he is home will for sure be a challenge...

Thanks!!

[creations]

It sounds like a great start to be honest.  I started pretty much from day 1, although it's impossible to get a new born to sleep independent all the time right away so it was a slow gradual process and I had a huge amount of time to put in.  I would say mine was sleeping independently at around 8 wks and demanded his own night bed for day naps instead of sleeping in the family room at 10wks.  Sounds young but that's a good couple of months of gradual and gentle sleep training and with no other child to take care of either.

I started with shh/pat in his crib and he did fall asleep, but after I took my hands off of him he would wake up again within 5-10 minutes.

This is often the reason many give up, you need to keep on with the patting or a hand on LO for a full 20 mins after they nod off so that they enter deep sleep. The description is something like "melting into the mattress" and the breathing might change.  This is the basic shush/pat method in the early days of sleep training.  After a while you can reduce the amount of shush/pat until you only do a bit and leave when LO is still awake.
This is why it takes a lot of time because you might have 20 min wind down and a further 20+ mins until deep sleep. Of course it is time well spent once they actually start to sleep better/longer/independently but you might not be able to commit that amount of time every nap.  If not then many people start with one nap per day and once that one is going well begin on the next.  This might be an option for you?

I only have 1 LO so have not experienced sleep training with a toddler around but I know from the boards that many with 2 use a sling a lot.  I also see many put in pram naps as routine so that they can get out and about with the toddler.  You might not want to sleep train every nap in the cot as it can be quite limiting if you have to be home for every nap especially when the youngest is so young and there is hardly any A time to do anything in.  If a LO is not used to sleep in a sling or pram they can refuse it and only sleep at home - mine was like that and I couldn't be out anywhere at nap time or he just screamed until he got home to his bed.  He did settle into a routine of a cot nap at home and car naps on the way to and from places so I could get us out which was better but still refused to sleep in arms/sling/pram.  I would just keep that in mind before you throw yourself headlong into "cot-only" naps.

[peepip]

Thank you so much for your reply!
I think I will commit to one cot nap per day while I have both little ones at home. And aim for 2 when I just have my newborn at home

We do have a bassinet so I can use that for other naps in the living room so I can spend more time with my toddler.

He will nap in the sling, so that’s also a possibility for when I get desperate and just need him to sleep but also need to get stuff done.

Thanks again for your advice and help!

[creations]

You're welcome.
Hope you find a suitable routine and way forward that fits with all your family needs.  We're here if you need support or have questions

[peepip]

Oh! I do have a small question. For the past 2-3 days I’ve noticed he won’t completely settle into a nap until he’s had a tiny feed- usually just one breast, no longer than a few minutes. Even if he falls asleep on the breast he is awake (though drowsy) when put in the cot, then will fall asleep with some oats, or if I just hold my hand on him for a couple of minutes. Should I be working to change this?? I’ve noticed he’s reluctant to take good, long feeds when he wakes up so maybe this is contributing?? Do you have any advice? Thanks again!

[jfrancis]

Hi Peepip,

I don’t have the answers to your questions, but I just wanted to say Hi as I’m in the exact same position as you. I have a 5 week old that I’m gently trying to sleep train and a 2 year old who is very demanding.
I find shush pat works well when miss 2 is st day care, but when she’s home my bubba just can’t settle as well. We have been doing some pram naps and sling naps when needed and the occasional feed to sleep if she just refuses to settle. It’s so hard to know what they want at this age and I find getting Activity times right is near impossible, it takes me 30-40 mins to settle my bubba, so I think I still haven’t got them figured out. I usually have her awake for an hour and 5-10 mins and half the time she doesn’t look sleepy.
I used shush pat with my 2 year old from about 8 weeks and it was always a bit hit and miss, but as she got older it must  have worked as she could self settle better than any of my friends kids.
So just keep plugging away and when you’ve got the time and patience, use shush pat, but if not, don’t feel bad for using any other props you need. The one thing I promised myself after my first baby was that I would be less rigid with this one and not be so afraid of creating ‘bad habits’, as they grow up and become more independent no matter what you do.
Good luck with it all
Jen

[peepip]

Hi Jen, thanks for your reply! Awake times are all over the place for us too! Sometimes he will be up for an hour and half or more, and other times he will want to go to sleep after only 30 minutes!
I made that same promise to myself when I found out I was expecting #2, it was soooo stressful with my first and to be honest everything is so fleeting so now I just take it as it comes but still trying to put in effort where I can to hopefully set us up for the near future.

Good luck!! I’m sure it will all get much easier for us in the coming months

[creations]

For the past 2-3 days I’ve noticed he won’t completely settle into a nap until he’s had a tiny feed- usually just one breast, no longer than a few minutes. Even if he falls asleep on the breast he is awake (though drowsy) when put in the cot, then will fall asleep with some oats, or if I just hold my hand on him for a couple of minutes. Should I be working to change this?? I’ve noticed he’s reluctant to take good, long feeds when he wakes up so maybe this is contributing?? Do you have any advice?

I'm reluctant to give advice on BF because I am not experienced. The WHO guidance is to feed on demand which would suggest you go ahead and feed. On the flip side it sounds like a prop might be forming, as the A time is only 1hr it won't have been very long since the previous E (less than 1hr) so I'd think it unlikely LO would be properly hungry. In general we just say to try to have a little A between E and S to about the F2S habit.
I have probably not helped you there!  Please feel free to post on the BF board though for more experienced advice.

[Nat.lou.al]

Hi mamas, I have a question I'm hoping someone can help with. I also have a 5week old and 2 year old, it's a juggling act for sure. Used the bw techniques at 3m with my first and he did really well, hoping to get a head start this time.
During the day he's on a fairly predictable routine (likely due to my toddlers great schedule) he bf every 3 hours, a little more frequent in the evening, try to bath both at the same time, 6.30pm, Dh does toddlers Jammie's, book, bed routine while little one cluster feeds aiming for 8pm put down. We use the 4's, he initially gets upset but settles with shush pat, we get him in his bassinet continue shush pat, just as he looks like he's transitioning he wakes up, like eyes wide open, sometimes getting upset, sometimes squirming like he gas had so we pick up and burp while shushing, either way the whole process starts over 😩 When he does fall asleep he usually lasts no more than 30mins coz it took so long to settle that now it's E time, sometimes we abort mission and feed because it's been over an hour and he's still not in deep sleep.
It's impossible to spend that time getting him to nap with my toddler, but when toddler naps 12-2.30 i attempt shush pat again. Other naps are in carrier, car seat or held.
Any idea where I'm going wrong? I feel like I'm still working out who this baby is, one minute seems textbook the next touchy. Thanks for any info/advice

[becj86]

try to bath both at the same time, 6.30pm, Dh does toddlers Jammie's, book, bed routine while little one cluster feeds aiming for 8pm put down.

If there's no nap in between these two activities, LO is probably very overtired and that's likely why he'd be struggling to get off to sleep and waking shortly after as well. Really, he should be up for maybe an hour tops, 1.5hr if you've a very alert awake little baby (that's average at 3 months), before he's back into bed for more sleep.

[Nat.lou.al]

He cat naps mid cluster feed, but yes likely because he's so tired by this point. Also I wonder now if a bath with my toddler who is busy playing/singing may be too stimulating for the little one.
I'll make some changes and see how we go. Thank you.
I understand every baby is different but at this age when do you usually expect to see some changes, my first child always seemed to follow the 3 day rule, but I'm wondering if that's too much to expect from a younger babe?

[becj86]

I would be surprised if bathtime with a toddler wasn't overstimulating!

It can be very quick with a newborn but it can also be slower because days are less predictable, so it depends a bit on his temperament and how the days go as to how long the changes take to make a difference for him.

[dache]

Hello ladies, it's nice to see moms of so small babies,
I tought it might be just me for a while ☺ My baby is 7 weeks today.
 

Oh! I do have a small question. For the past 2-3 days I’ve noticed he won’t completely settle into a nap until he’s had a tiny feed- usually just one breast, no longer than a few minutes. Even if he falls asleep on the breast he is awake (though drowsy) when put in the cot, then will fall asleep with some oats, or if I just hold my hand on him for a couple of minutes. Should I be working to change this?? I’ve noticed he’s reluctant to take good, long feeds when he wakes up so maybe this is contributing?? Do you have any advice? Thanks again!

Sometimes when she is overtired she also wants to feed a bit, it calms her down. So I do feed her a little bit but I make sure she has same awake time after. I burp her or just hold her in my arms once I notice she is relaxed enough I put her in the cot and she falls asleep on her own.

[Nat.lou.al]

My little one sometimes needs a top up feed, but will wake when I burp so he's still put down drowsy but awake. Other times he'll take a paci for a couple of minutes to calm and satisfy his need to suck